Friday, February 6, 2009

Global or Local Antichrist?

Nathan JonesPDFBy Nathan Jones

Will the Antichrist rule over every nation of the earth, or just 10 of those nations? Will he be a global ruler, or a local ruler over a coalition of nations? Will the world tremble under his iron grip, or only the nation of Israel fear his wrath? Global, or local Antichrist?

Local View

Where does the local view that the Antichrist will rule just ten nations come from? Revelation 17:12-13 is the answer. It reads, "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast."

As the text states, in the future ten kings (presidents, dictators, whatnot) will arise to rule kingdoms and will for a short time in history grant their power to "the Beast," which Bible prophecy students will recognize as the Antichrist. The Antichrist is given rulership over the ten kingdom nations.

The local view stops with this description. All the further acts in Revelation that the Antichrist commits against the Jews is just for the Jews, and as this view holds, has nothing to do with the rest of the world. It's Israel against a ten-nation empire, and that's that.

Global View

The global view takes Revelation 17:12-13 and puts it into context with other passages that express the scope of God's wrath during the Tribulation, the time period the Antichrist has such prominence in. The references are as follows:

Concerning the amount of nations the Lord is angry with:
"The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter." - Isaiah 34:2

Concerning the number of nations the Jews were scattered to that the Lord will destroy:
"I am with you and will save you,' declares the LORD. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'" - Jeremiah 30:11

Concerning the number of nations that will join to attack Israel:
"I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land." - Joel 3:2

Concerning the available fighting men available to attack Israel:
"Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack." - Joel 3:9

Also concerning the number of nations that will join to attack Israel:
"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city." - Zechariah 14:2

Concerning how much of the world the Lord will gather and destroy:
"Therefore wait for me,' declares the LORD, 'for the day I will stand up to testify. I have decided to assemble the nations, to gather the kingdoms and to pour out my wrath on them — all my fierce anger. The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger." - Zephaniah 3:8

Concerning the influence of the Antichrist's kingdom:
"A second angel followed and said, 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.'" - Revelation 14:8

Concerning the scope of the Antichrist's ability to call the world into battle:
"They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty." - Revelation 16:14

Also concerning the influence of the Antichrist's kingdom:
"For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries... The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray." - Revelation 18:3, 23

In all ten of these verses, either or both of the words "all" and "whole" are used to explain the number of nations involved that:

  1. the Jews were scattered to in the Diaspora

  2. the Antichrist will influence

  3. the Antichrist will command

  4. the Antichrist will general their armies

  5. the Lord's anger will burn against

  6. the Lord will gather in Israel

  7. the Lord will destroy

Judgments

Beyond these verses, Revelation portrays the judgments God lets loose. Does he let loose these judgments on the whole earth, or just on the Antichrist's ten kingdoms?

Verses like the Seal Judgments in Revelation 6:12-17 set the scope:

"I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?'"

Then there's the Trumpet Judgments of Revelation 8 and 9, full of references to the plagues resulting in a third of the world, waters, light and peoples being destroyed. The "rest of mankind" in Revelation 9:20 are left to face the Bowl Judgments, ending with an earthquake so great that "No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake… Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found" (Rev. 16:18, 20).

Each of these plagues were so terrible in scope — involving sun, moon, stars, bodies of water and land — that they could not happen without effecting the entire planet.

Objection to the Global View

An objection made against the global view rests on a figure of speech called synecdoche. Synecdoche, pronounced "si-nek-duh-kee," is defined as "a figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part." In this case, the words "all" and "whole" that the various authors in the Bible use is a form of exaggeration. It is like saying "he ate the whole bag of popcorn," when in reality he only ate the popcorn within the bag and not the bag itself (hopefully).

The objection rests on other references in the Bible that use synecdoche, such as Paul's compliment to the church in Rome in Romans 1:8 that their "faith is being reported all over the world." Or, in Daniel 2:38, when Nebuchadnezzar is told he in his dream was made ruler over all of mankind, beasts and birds. In these two examples the use of synecdoche is quite evident in the context, as clearly "all" the world at the time hadn't heard of the faith of the church in Rome, just the Roman Empire, and all of mankind at the time didn't know they were subject to Nebuchadnezzar, just where his influence resided over.

And yet, hasn't the faith of the church in Rome today been spread all over the world since Paul's time through the Bible? And, didn't God give Nebuchadnezzar authority over the entire world, though some lands didn't know who God's "world king" at the time was? But, that's a side counter.

The local view concludes that in all ten verses by all six prophetic authors God Himself is exaggerating what He is going to accomplish during the Tribulation. Such a claim goes far beyond sound biblical, literal interpretation and sounds reminiscent of Satan's deceptive query in Genesis 3:1, "Did God really say..."

To attribute synecdoche to these weighty verses and conclude that the Antichrist is a local ruler that doesn't affect the world outside of his ten nations and Israel is to ignore God's plan for the ages — one that brings justice, restores Israel, and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.

An Old "Global or Local" Debate

Another "Global or Local" debate once raged over whether the Flood during Noah's time covered the entire planet, or was merely an overflowed body of water in the Middle East. The global view in this Flood debate continues to base itself on the Genesis account's literal, repeated statements that God's watery wrath upon man's evil was global in nature, such as in Genesis 6:17, "I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish."

The Genesis account has been confirmed as global in scope by both paleontology and geology beyond the literal reading of Genesis 6:17. After all, something had to get all those clam fossils up to the tops of mountains, and trees buried vertically through ground layers. And yet, despite the Bible's account of the Flood reiterating again and again that it covered the whole earth and all the extra-biblical evidence, a few remain who hold to the local view of the Flood.

How far the Antichrist's empire will extend has become the new "Global or Local" debate.

Conclusion

The Bible does makes it clear the Antichrist will rule ten nations, but it also makes it clear their boundaries and authority encompass the entire planet. Like the Flood debate, the literal, biblical descriptions concerning the world-wide scope of God's wrath upon the whole world overwhelmingly support a Global Antichrist.

47 comments:

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

a question i always had concerning the "global" kingdom, which it is global is the throne of the beast. The 5th vial states darkness is on the throne of the beast. Does that mean the whole earth cuz he's ruler of the earth at that time or just over the ten nations?

son of thunder said...

I would like to Nathan's opinion on that as well.

Matthew Henry's Commentary seems to imply that it's a spiritual darkness from Rome, the [assumed] seat of Antichrist.

The King James Study Bible implies that it's a real darkness enveloping Rome or Jerusalem.

Nathan Jones said...

The scope of the fifth bowl/vial says "kingdom."

Tim LaHaye focuses on "throne" in that verse and says the scope for this judgment covers the city the Antichrist rules from.

This darkness is different than the judgments related to the shortening of the days and darkening of the sun and moon, so is probably supernatual in origin.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

i imagine the darkness is global. Since his kingdom is over the earth. If the word was "throne" then i could see how it might be localized. Incedently my opinion is that the 1st 4 seals and 1st 3 trumpets are natural (caused by man, atomic?) but it seems the last 3 seals, the last 4 trumpets and ALL the bowl judgements are supernatural.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

son of thunder, hals' placement of the Gog/magog war is EXACTLY what i was thinking about when i said i dont agree wit everything. Here is why i think some of the judgements are NOT natural. 1. With the bowl judgements the context from rev 15 indicate so and at that time people realize it. 2. The 5th seal takes place in heaven. 3. People realize the 6th seal is the wrath of the lamb

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

4. The 1st 4 trumpet judgements could EASILY be produced by atomic warfare so they may be from man. 5. The 5th and 6th are CLEARLY demonic as the context indicates. 6. The 1st 4 seals are CLEARLY by man cuz it says so. Are my facts strait?

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

one more thing (i think) the idea of a "localized" tribulation is not a new concept. Dake tought it as well as some others. Perhaps i'm too dogmatic but if i read a commentary or a prophecy book that doesnt take things literally i stop reading right then and there. The book by dake had so many inconsistencys. "this judgement is local, but not this one" either its literal or not.

son of thunder said...

I'm a global kingdom guy. I can't imagine "all the nations" of the earth as being two hand-fulls of European nations. I agree with Tim LaHaye in his "Left Behind" series in a global empire.

As for the darkness, I could go either way, but I think that it will just affect one city. This guy's supposed to be God and he can't even control what happens in his own hometown?

If you read carefully, these vial plagues are almost exactly like the plagues on Egypt in Exodus. Water into blood, sores, darkness, etc. Those were not man-made; they were judgments against the Egyptian gods of whom Pharaoh was supposedly the head. So I don't think any of the vial judgments of Revelation 16 are man-made either.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

my money is on global but i dont know. If you read the context you'll gat a good idea which ones are not man-made. Otherwise why would the "curse the God of heaven who had power over the plagues"? They'll be few athiests in that day. They'll know who God is and FIGHT HIM. they'll be gathered, and CRUSHED! AND TRAMPLED DOWN AND GOD WILL GET HIS GLORY!!!

son of thunder said...

Unfortunately you're right. There will too many (1 is too many) people die for their false god.

There will be just as many athiests then as there are now: zero. Athiests believe in a god: they make themselves god of their own little universe.

The reason they curse God is because of something called "The Luciferian Doctrine" which, simply stated, is God is Satan and Satan is God. Example: When God appeared to Abram, there was darkness and great terror, so God must be evil. Contrarily, Satan is called Lucifer, the Light Bringer, so Satan must be good, right?

Mankind will be so convinced of this during the Tribulation, that everything that is happening is obviously evil from an evil God and ultimately their god, the Antichrist, will throw Him down and usher in an era of peace.

son of thunder said...

I don't know what all is involved, but does it seem to anyone else that Nathan has a great job? I'm sure there's more to it, but "playing" on the internet sounds like a great job.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

thats way even today society has given God the finger and took the attitude of WHO ARE YOU GOD TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO? His judgement must be rapidly approaching.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

he must do hours of studying. And i send him about a billion question. (some prolly real dumb ones)

son of thunder said...

Yeah, that's why even today the peoples of earth have given God the finger and copped an attitude.

My pastor refers to the Last Hours, not the Last Days. We are there. Seriously, Damascus could be destroyed any time with the Gog/Magog war close behind along with the Rapture at some point.

Nathan's slick, now. He knows his stuff. I think Lamb and Lion Ministries is in excellent hands if Dr. Reagan ever decides to step down, which I hope he doesn't any time soon.

hart_thizzle10_9 said...

based on the answers he gives me he may not know nearly as much (that's what HE says) he does have as much of a grasp on it. I could never work computers tho. They are like women. I cant turn either of them on.

Mitchell said...

The Antichrist's rule will not be global. He will be fighting wars up until the time of Armageddon (Dan 9:26). If his rule is global, why are other nations waging war against him and why is he himself waging wars? In order for his authority to literally be global he would first have to conquer every nation and every person in the world. This he is never able to accomplish. He will fight wars right up to the Battle of Armageddon, as Dan 9:26 states that "unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The Antichrist coalition’s ten nation base does not include every nation in the earth.

We need to apply proper Biblical hermeneutics and exegesis when reading Scripture. Let's look at a few verses:

Revelation 13:7-8, "He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life."

"All inhabitants of the earth (ge) will worship the beast."

Greek: ge: means territory, region, a land enclosed with fixed boundaries

Compared with: Revelation 11:15, "The kingdoms of this world (kosmos) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Greek: kosmos: means the world, universe, circle of the earth (the whole globe)

Per above Dan 9:26 tells us that Antichrist is fighting wars up until the end. Nations will resist the Antichrist and even fight against him and escape his authority: Daniel 11:40-42, "At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. He will extend his power over many countries (not all countries); Egypt will not escape."

Caution Regarding Hyperbole/synecdoche in a Hyper-Literal Fashion. Per the article above the Bible does indeed use figures of speech such as this to drive home a point.

synecdoche - noun, figure of speech, a species of metaphor, in which a part of a person or thing is used to designate the whole

Luke 2:1-3 "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL THE WORLD should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And ALL went to be taxed, every one into his own city."

Mark 1:5, "And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

Daniel 2:36-38, "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them ALL. You are that head of gold."

Ezra 1:2, "Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD Elohim of heaven hath given me ALL the kingdoms of the earth;"

Did Caesar literally tax the whole world? Did Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus literally rule over the entire earth? Did their rule extend over the Shang or Zhou Chinese Dynasties? In the 600’s B.C., we have the earliest writing in the Americas by the Olmec culture. Did Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus rule over the Olmec peoples? Of course not. These are example of a figure of speech known as a synecdoche.

Here's another example:

Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto the ends of the world."

This is the same thing in Col 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN; whereof I Paul am made a minister."

We know that there were many nations at the time of Paul who had not heard the Gospel. Nathan recognizes that there are examples of synecdoche in Scripture, but denies that the references to Antichrist can be another example of a synecdoche when numerous other verses in Scripture in the context of Antichrist demonstrate it forcefully, notwithstanding the fact that logically Antichrist cannot have global power if he is fighting so many wars until the end.

Another passage that some use to conclude that the AC’s rule will be universal:

Zechariah 14:2, "For I will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity..."

Who Are “All” the Nations?

Goy Cabiyb: Surrounding Gentiles or the Gentiles Round About.

Zechariah 14:14 "Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the SURROUNDING nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance."

Zechariah 12:2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the SURROUNDING peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem."

Joel 3:11-12 "Hasten and come, all you SURROUNDING nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat,For there I will sit to judge All the SURROUNDING nations."

Ezekiel 28:24-26 "'No longer will the people of Israel have malicious NEIGHBORS who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD. " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their NEIGHBORS WHO MALIGNED AGAINST THEM. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.'"

When Christ returns the Bible lists the nations that fights against Him BY NAME. Every nation that is named is today an Islamic nation. Antichrist's rule will be relegated to the WHOLE MUSLIM world, not the world as a whole.

son of thunder said...

Mitchell, according to Strong's Dictionary the word "ge", pronounced ghay, where we get Gaia means: 1.arable land, 2.the ground, 3.the main land as opposed to the sea or water, 4.the EARTH AS A WHOLE, and 5.a country, land enclosed, etc.

As for kosmos the first three definitions refer to the universe and the created order.

Daniel 11:40-42 is a prophecy concerning the wars between the four generals who took over after Alexander the Great died and the Greek Empire was divided.

Cabiyb (saw-beeb) just means "from every side". That, to me, just means Isra'el's borders will be assaulted. And the word "all" (kole) literally means "all, the whole, each, every, totality." All the different people (go'-ee), which can also be used for any decendant of Abraham, including the Isra'eli. So all enemies of God will be judged in the valley of Jehoshaphat.

As for Ezekiel 28, are the Isra'eli living peacefully? I don't care what news channel is watched, Isra'el is constantly under fire. So this prophecy is either in error (which is impossible) or it refers to a time of peace when Isra'el's enemies are gone. That would be what we call the Millenial Kingdom.

Mitchell said...

son of thunder,

Let us keep in mind that when Scripture is compared with Scripture with respect to passages concerning the Antichrist, the greek word "ge" in Revelation 13:8 is best understood not as the whole literal earth but rather all the surrounding nations that a number of other OT passages refer to, i.e., "a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region." I think that if John wanted to convey the meaning of the whole literal earth he would have likely chosen a better word such as "kosmos". In light of the multitude of Old Testament passages that consistently speak of surrounding nations or nations round about Jerusalem, it would be hermeneutically unsound to dogmatically state that Revelation 13:8 is speaking of planet earth as a whole.

As for Daniel 11:40-42, this is accepted by the majority of Bible scholars/teachers if not all to be a direct reference to the Antichrist. To contextualize, just take a quick look a few verses earlier, starting with verses 36-39, which reads:

"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain." 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 should immediately come to mind here.

It seems that those who would like to say that Daniel 11:40-42 is not referring to the Antichrist are those whose presumption is that Antichrist's reign is literally global, therefore those verses cannot be referring to him since it would force them to rethink their eschatology in this respect. But the context of the passage reveals to us that it is indeed a reference to Antichrist.

For Zechariah 14:2, this verse needs to agree with other verses of Scripture, which are explicit in stating that it is all of the surrounding nations. Since Scripture does not contradict Scripture, we need to apply proper hermeneutics to our understanding of 14:2. All the nations, as verse 14 states, are the surrounding nations and not all nations of the whole earth -- for one, it would be a logistical impossibility for it to literally be all nations on the planet to surround the city of Jerusalem. Joel agrees with Zachariah in saying that it is the surrounding nations, and Ezekiel agrees as well by calling them "malicious neighbors". Zechariah would not claim all nations on the planet in verse 2 and then turn around and say just the surrounding nations in verse 14. In the context of this chapter it is obvious that Zechariah is referring only to the surround nations, just as Joel and Ezekiel tell us (and yes, Ezekiel 28 refers to the future, but reminds us that it was the surrounding NEIGHBORS that came against Jerusalem who were maligned against them).

son of thunder said...

Let me ask you a question: What "neighbor" in this global community that we already have (not speaking of things to come, but right now) is friendly to Isra'el?

In today's society, we are already thinking globally, and, as we study the news, we see coalitions forming worldwide. The European Union, the African nations are forming a union, the North American union is forming, and I've heard that perhaps the Asian nations of China and Japan might have deal in the works. The various governments of the world are discussing having a global monetary unit within the next few years. So it's not inconcievable that at some point we have ten coalitions, or kingdoms, unified (at least for a while) under the Antichrist.

In Revelation 11:9 who is viewing the bodies of the two Witnesses? Just the locals, the surrounding nations, or the whole world? With satellite transmission, literally everybody on earth could see the bodies.

The word for kingdoms (bas-il-i'-ah) in Revelation 11:15 does not refer to an actual kingdom, but refers to the RIGHT to rule, specifically the Messiah's right to rule. Amen and amen.

davidson county said...

I think it will be a global antichrist. Seconds changing the economy, seconds changing the presidency, seconds changing seconds, I believe its only seconds until the antichrist is seen, seen globally.

Mitchell said...

son of thunder,

Your question presumes that "neighbor" is in the context of a global community. Proper exegesis and hermeneutical application of Scripture does not support that presumption. It repeatedly describes the neighbors as those nations round about Jerusalem.

Just because today's society "thinks globally" does not mean that it is OK for us to inject our bias and presuppositions into Scripture. Not only does the Bible name the nations/regions that fight against Christ at Armageddon, it is also clear that those nations are Jerusalem's neighbors, the ones that are in the surrounding regions, that maligned against them. And what nations today repeatedly spew their hatred for Israel over their airwaves? What nations today see the destruction of Israel as a good thing for world? What people today deny the holocaust or wish that it had gone further into killing every last Jew? What religious system today indoctrinates its followers with Jew hatred, with the belief that a time is coming when it will be their religious duty to kill every last Jew who does not submit to their ideology? It is no coincidence that this describes the Islamic NEIGHBORS that SURROUND Israel today.

Keeping Revelation 11:9 in context we know that those who are viewing the bodies of the two witnesses are those who follow Antichrist. Just because we have the technical ability today to transmit the images globally does not mean that literally every single human being on the planet will view the bodies. It is one thing to say that we can transmit digital photos or videos throughout the planet, and a completely different thing to say that the Antichrist will have complete domination throughout the planet (which Scripture proves beyond a doubt to not be the case).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say regarding Revelation 11:15, the previous discussion was regarding the word for world here, "kosmos".

son of thunder said...

My point in Rev. 11:15 is that God thinks and works globally as well as universally and we as Christians should do the same.

Do the nations around Isra'el cause a whole lot of trouble? Yes, but their power will be erradicated in Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39, so when the Tribulation comes other nations (specifically European) will step in and Isra'el will sign a 7 year treaty, but that's somewhat irrelevant to this.

I'm a literalist. When the Bible says words like world (universe) and earth (the globe), I take that to mean world and earth. When the word eratz (which in Hebrew means earth) is used in conjunction with, say, Isra'el it is a localized statement, hence the Land of Isra'el (Ha'Eratz Yisra'el). But we don't find that to be the case when describing Antichrist's kingdom.

And in light of what the governments of this world are doing in the creation of a global empire, the local Antichrist does not, to me, make much sense.

Anonymous said...

besides all this the u.n the e.u and sadly even the u.s seem to be coming against isreal

Mitch said...

son of thunder,

Ultimately God thinks globally/universally, but prophecy is Jerusalem-centric and Israel-centric in the context which we are discussing. Your assumption that Isiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39 somehow eradicate the power of the Islamic nations is pure conjecture and an example of eisegetical reading of the text.

ON THE TIMING OF THE BATTLE OF GOG AND MAGOG

1—Ezekiel 38-39 In both battles—Gog and Armageddon—Christ is present with the greatest earthquake: “And all the men that are upon the face of the earth shall shake at my presence.” (Ezekiel 38:20) Who is present? God is present—in the flesh. This is indeed the last battle, with Jesus scoring a great victory on behalf of his people against their enemies.

2—If one doubts that Messiah is on earth, the text in verse 7 should leave no doubt. “And the heathen shall know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel,” (39:7).

The Holy One is IN Israel. Other parts of Scripture use the phrase “the Holy One of Israel,” but here the Messiah is actually present on the Earth in the Land of Israel. This “in” is crucial. It’s like DNA evidence in a court of law.

3—Not only is Christ present, but the destruction of both Gog and the Antichrist is accompanied by an earthquake of unparalleled proportions: “For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken. Surely in THAT DAY there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground,” (Ezekiel 38:19-20).

Shake at my presence? In the same verse, we read about the earthquake and his presence on earth. This is not a small event. Every creature on the earth will shake at the presence of Jesus.

4—We also have verse 19, which states, “My fury shall come up in my face.” (Ezekiel 38:18). This is a literal face.

[Reagan believes Ezekiel is not referring to Armageddon as well, however ...]

The only choice Reagan has is to allegorize this “presence” and “face”. If so, then he must allegorize the literal feet that will touch the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14. By this, he will enforce a Jewish interpretation that denies Jesus is Messiah. He has only two choices. So which one is it?

5—The Book of Revelation also tells us that this event occurs when the Antichrist’s armies are gathered together against Israel: “Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon ... And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great ... and the cities of the nations fell ... And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found,” (Revelation 16:18:-20).

6—Both descriptions tell us that the mountains are “thrown down.” In other words, no nations are left. Only one kingdom remains—The Kingdom of Messiah.

http://www.prophezine.com/PZArticles/CHALLENGESByWalidShoebat/tabid/795/Default.aspx

Now, as for being a "literalist", then you must therefore believe the following:

1: Caesar Augustus literally taxed the WHOLE WORLD, including the Incans of South America.

Luke 2:1-3 "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL THE WORLD should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And ALL went to be taxed, every one into his own city."

2: That literally EVERY living person in Judea and Jerusalem were baptized in the Jordan and were saved.

Mark 1:5, "And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

3: That Nebuchadnezzar was literally the king of the entire planet.

Daniel 2:36-38, "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them ALL. You are that head of gold."

4: That Cyrus literally was given every single kingdom on the planet, including the Chinese dynasty of the day.

Ezra 1:2, "Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD Elohim of heaven hath given me ALL the kingdoms of the earth;"

5: That the gospel was preached to literally every single nation, people and culture on the planet during the first century.

Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Col 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN; whereof I Paul am made a minister."

Obviously, there are many instances where we cannot read a figure of speech such as synecdoche, allegories, metaphors, hyperbole -- in a literal sense. Verses regarding Antichrist included.

If your contention is the expectation that Antichrist will have dominion over the whole literal planet (including the European Union, North America, South America, Australia, Iceland, Japan,China, etc) and/or come from the EU, and not be relegated to the Islamic regions/nations that the Bible specifically names, then you must also expect that:

* Yet a different billion and a half people will also be specifically antichrist as the most important fundamental ("shirk") of an as yet unknown European religion.

* Yet a different billion and a half people will also follow a different, as yet unknown, European false prophet.

* Yet a different religion will also "wear out the saints" by murdering Jews and Christians (Dan 7:25) - and by beheading.

* Yet a different religion will also change the times - by creating its own calendar. (Daniel 7:25)

* Yet a different religion will also seek to change laws - by ignoring the Sabbath as well as imposing Islamic Sharia law, in the place of legitimate laws of sovereign nations, throughout the world. (Daniel 7:25)

* Yet a different religion will also build yet another abomination (Dome of the Rock) on the Temple Mount that will:
1) Blaspheme God The Most High - with mosaic inscriptions inside and out that read "Far be it from God's glory that he should have a Son".
2) Blaspheme God's name - blaspheme Yahweh by calling their god Allah.
3) Blaspheme God's tabernacle - by building the Dome of the Rock, with blasphemy written all over it, within 300 feet of where the Holy of Holies was kept.

* Yet a different religion will also be marked with the number 666 = Bismillah = "in the name of Allah".

http://fp.thebeers.f9.co.uk/beast.htm
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm

* Yet a different religion will establish in a few years, what took Islam almost 1400 years to establish.

Are we really to believe that the 1.5 billion antichrist Muslims in antichrist Islam today, will all convert to a different as yet unknown European antichrist religion, operated by some as yet unknown antichrist charismatic European leader, and this in a period of just a few years?

Justine said...

Goodness gracious, Mitch!

Perhaps instead of publishing your articles in the COMMENT section of Nathan and Dr. Reagan's blog, you might consider just writing your own blog.

son of thunder said...

Amen, Justine.

Either the bible is the literal Word of God or it isn't. It's either true or isn't. It cannot be both.

Mitchell said...

son of thunder,

The Bible is literally the Word of God, to that we will both agree. But not every verse or teaching or prophecy etc. was intended by the God-inspired author to be taken in a literal sense. We must learn how to read the Bible the way it was intended to be understood, and that means that not everything is intended to be taken in a wooden literal sense. Saying that "it's either true or it isn't" confuses the issue and will only confuse you since it is implying that everything must be taken literally at face value and nothing should be read figuratively as it was intended.

Jesus called himself a shepherd, a gate, a light. Some of the most theologically important words in the Bible are figures of speech. We should not interpret them literally, because they aren't meant to be read literally. In everyday speech we often use figurative language. We might say, "He was green with envy," or "She really got my goat." By using such figures of speech, we can communicate better than if we had to use words literally.

In the Bible, if we always prefer a literal meaning, we may miss the point. The disciples made this mistake when Jesus told them to beware of the "yeast" of the Jewish leaders (Matthew 16:6). The disciples thought about their failure to bring any bread. Jesus reminded them that he could create bread for thousands if necessary. He wasn't worried about physical bread. The disciples then understood that Jesus meant doctrine or teaching when he had said "yeast" (v12). It was a figure of speech.

Jesus explained his ministry in figurative language rather than in plain words (John 16:25). His parables, for example, often puzzled people. Even his disciples had to ask him to explain what he meant (Mark 4:10, 13). Many of his teachings are still the subject of debate.

For instance, Mark 9:42-48, tells Christians if their hand or foot "offends" them they should "cut it off" and if their eye "offends" them, they should "pluck it out." If you take this literally, you would engage in self-mutilation. This would be dangerous and absurd.

In Matthew 26:26 Jesus took bread and said,"Take and eat; this is my body". Did Jesus Christ intend for this statement to be taken literally, or was he using symbolic language, a figure of speech? Common sense should tell you the answer right away.

Let me ask you this -- do you take everything that people tell you literally? If a friend bought a new motorcycle and told you they were flying down the road, would you believe that they literally flew down the street, off the ground? Of course not. And I'm sure that when you read the Bible there are times when you do not take it literally, despite your statements to the contrary. For instance, the dragon in Revelation is not a literal dragon, now is it? What about Mark 10:25 & Luke 18:25, "...it is easier for an camel to go through the eye of needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." I'm sure you don't take this verse literally.

Bottom line is this - take it literally where it is intended, and read the Bible figuratively where it is intended. Exegete the text, apply sound hermeneutics to Scripture, learn to recognize figures of speech and use common sense and you'll be well on your way to understanding Scripture the way it was meant to be understood.

Billy said...

Mitchell,

I'm sure we'd all agree your comments are welcome but maybe you could be concise.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm not reading your comments because of their length.

Just a suggestion.

Mitchell said...

It is a good suggestion. Sometimes though to give a good answer it takes a few more words. :/

Anonymous said...

It is amazing to read about all this nonsense and superstition in the year 2009.
Do you really, literally believe this?

Nathan Jones said...

You bet, Anonymous! Remember our lamblion.com site when all these things begin to take place (particularly the "Did Many People Disappear?" link on the homepage).

Anonymous said...

Mitchell,

Your excellent work is something for us to ponder and think about. Indeed, unlike the rest here, I can see a person who has done his homework. Sure, your writting is longer then anyone here can handle, that is because you chew on the Word and not swallow what anyone throws around. A good student of the Bible is diligent. I enjoy reading what you have to say and you make my mind think. God Bless you Mitchell. I wish I can write to you privately, can you provide is with an email address?

Mitchell said...

Hi Anonymous, you can write me at bic1973@live.com

Mitchell said...

Nathan, your reference to "when these things begin to take place" is from Luke 21:28. I have a quick question. Why is this verse quoted when the immediate context of the verse is as follows:

Luke 21:20,25-28: "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near... And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO HAPPEN, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws NEAR."

Notice the cosmic signs in Luke 21:25. When does this happen?

Matthew 24:29-30, "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

Why quote a verse from a pre-trib perspective that is obviously in a post-trib context?

Matthew 24:33, "So you also, WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near--at the doors"

Nathan Jones said...

Sorry, Mitchell, where in the article above am I referencing Luke 21:28?

Mitchell said...

Hi Nathan, I'm not referencing any article, I'm referencing your previous post where you stated "when all these things begin to take place" which is from Luke 21:28. If you believe as David Reagan does, you believe that Luke is speaking to Christians here. Many who are waiting for a pre-trib rapture often quote this verse from Luke and include "look up... for your redemption draws near", when the context is clearly post-trib. You begin to quote the verse and then point to the "Did Many People Disappear?" article regarding a pre-trib rapture.

Nathan Jones said...

Mitchell, let's take a discussion about Pre/Post-Trib to my previous series Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and read through those for your answer.

I'll have to wait to get into the nitty gritty verse-by-verse after the weekend. Gotta run to the airport.

JJ said...

Amazing debate guys. I'm going to have to go with Mitchell on this one. Assessing all of the data, it is clear that the rule of the AC will be primarily regional. Some of the vesres use synecdoke and others hyperbole. This is common throughout the Bible in numerous places as has been shown, but whenever it gets specific, it is always pointing to the neighbors of Israel. The multilple use of "surrounding nations" at the coming of Christ speaks volumes to me and simply cannot be ignored. Also happens to shatter the notion that all of these nations / Israel's neighbors will be destroyed several years prior to the coming of the Antichrist in some alleged Pslam 83 or Ezekiel 38 conflict. You are a good Berean Mitchy. Good work to Nathan as well, but I'll have to give it to Mitchy on this one.

Don said...

In referenc to so many great questions about the Assyrian Connection and the origin of the Antichrist. Please allow me to direct you to:

http://www.prophecywatch.com/news/theantichristeastorwest_jan2609

where you can read :

Response to review of The Assyrian Connection

The Antichrist-- EAST OR WEST?

by Phillip Goodman

Our response to a review of The Assyrian Connection, The Roman-Eastern Antichrist challenging the view that the Antichrist will arise from within the Eastern "leg" of the Revived Roman Empire-- complete with graphic charts to help you understand the "heads, horns, legs, toes, metal statues" and all the symbolism of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. You will need your Bible open and your mind prayerfully engaged... but you will profit spiritually as you gain new insight into passages that speak directly to today's headlines!!!



Also, if you're interested, here are a few Assyrian websites:

http://www.nineveh.com/

http://www.assyrianvoice.net/

http://www.aina.org/martyr.html

The last one is particularly interesting as it details "genocides against the Assyrian Nation".."from the fall of Ninevah…".

Sal said...

Don, reading through Goodman's article and your links... are you saying in the future Northern Iraq (not the Kurdish land part) will break away from the rest of Iraq and calls itself Assyria, and that the Antichrist will come from this newly formed nation?

If it breaks away, Nineveh, not Babylon, would be its logical capital, right?

Aren't the Assyrians you're referencing consider themselves Christians - more of a culture/religion than a race?

Don said...

Great question, Sal!
Not at all.
The case that Mr. Goodman makes is this:
The Bible gives strong indications that the Antichrist could possibly come from the eastern leg of the Revived Roman Empire.
The Roman Empire is symbolized by the legs and feet of the great image in Daniel 2.
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece are the five fallen kingdoms of Revelation 17:8-11. Notice, please that these five are ALL in the eastern leg of the Roman Empire.
When Alexander the Great died in 323 B.C., the Greek Empire established by Alexander was divided between four generals (diadochi).
In 198 B.C., Jerusalem and the Jews came under the control of the Seleucids when Antiochus III the Great defeated Ptolemy V Epiphanes and took control of Palestine.
Antiochus Epiphanes was the Biblical type (model) of the Antichrist. Was he Assyrian?
We all know that Antiochus IV was a Greek-Syrian (Seleucian). Is an African-American, or a Mexican American or an Italian-American, are they American or not? Please consider that in this current era, multi-culturalism is the "in thing".
Those "Assyrian" links were provided to show that there are people out there who are truly of ASSYRIAN descent. You see, a lot of historians will tell you that Assyria, and hence Assyrians, were destroyed. We have Assyrians right here in American. They might be Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, or Muslim. They may be Californians, Tennesseans, Nebraskans, or New Yorkers.
One person can be described in many different ways and each description can be accurate: American, Texan, Christian, Baptist, Irish-American, French-American, etc., etc….Consider that the antichrist MIGHT be a British citizen, of Assyrian ancestry, a Jewish convert to Islam (or Christianity?) or vice versa, a homosexual, a transsexual, a politician, a Pope, an astronaut, or a cowboy, residing in any (or one or more) country on this earth. God will bring him out when his time has come.
Another little side note, the Bible is accurate and exact on names of nations, peoples, tribes, and races. It is man, in writing his history, that seems to keep changing names of Biblical places and peoples. Canaan=Israel=Judea/Samaria=Palestine/West Bank/Gaza=Israel
Habakkuk 2:3
"For the vision is yet for the appointed time;
It hastens toward the goal, and it will not fail.
Though it tarries, wait for it;
For it will certainly come, it will not delay.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.



Also for you consideration:

http://bible-prophecy-today.blogspot.com/2009/02/us-to-help-rebuild-city-of-babylon-in.html


U.S. To Help Rebuild City Of Babylon In Iraq


By Joel C. Rosenberg

Largely overlooked by the Western news media over the past few weeks was an enormously significant story. The government of Iraq is moving forward with plans to protect the archaeological remains of the ancient City of Babylon, in preparation for building a modern city of Babylon. The project, originally started by the late Saddam Hussein, is aimed eventually at attracting scores of “cultural tourists” from all over the world to see the glories of Mesopotamia’s most famous city. What’s more, the Obama Administration is contributing $700,000 towards “The Future of Babylon Project,” through the State Department’s budget.

“Officials hope Babylon can be revived and made ready for a rich future of tourism, with help from experts at the World Monuments Fund (WMF) and the U.S. embassy,” reports the Reuters news agency. “‘The Future of Babylon’ project launched last month seeks to ‘map the current conditions of Babylon and develop a master plan for its conservation, study and tourism,’ the WMF says. ‘We don’t know how long it will take to reopen to tourists,’ said Mariam Omran Musa, head of a government inspection team based at the site. ‘It depends on funds. I hope that Babylon can be reborn in a better image.’”

In my non-fiction book, Epicenter 2.0 , I wrote about the Bible prophecies in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Revelation that indicate the ancient city of Babylon in Iraq will, in fact, be rebuilt in the “last days” of history and become the wealthiest and most powerful city on the face of the planet. I also cited my interview with Iraqi Finance Minister Ali Abdul Ameer Allawi who told me in 2006 at the peak of the insurgency,
“Cultural, religious, archaeological, and biblical tourism is a big opportunity for Iraq. I think rebuilding Babylon is a wonderful idea, as long as it is not done at the expense of the antiquities themselves.”
For many, I know the rebuilding of Babylon seemed like a far-fetched idea in the Bible. For many more, it seemed like a far-fetched idea in 2006, as well. But skeptics and cynics take note: now that the insurgency is dying down, the Shia-led government of Iraq is actually moving forward with this historic and prophetic project. They say Babylon will be “reborn.” And they’re right. It will be. Stay tuned.

Sal said...

But isn't Goodman going one step further than you explain by saying the "once was... will be" is the Assyrian Empire that will rise from the ashes and birth the Anti-Christ?

Don said...

Goodman writes: "Therefore, the Roman Empire, when it broke apart (from the inside out), has continued to exist down through history as a kingdom embedded in the nations of Europe and the Mideast. Rome has never ceased to exist as the fourth kingdom of Daniel. Rome will be revived as the fourth kingdom of Daniel at the end time…….But let's remember that the Western Roman Empire divided when it broke apart in the fifth century. It was at that point it entered the stage of Daniel 2:41—“the feet and toes...a divided kingdom.” It has remained feet of “iron and clay” ever since. The days of the iron legs representing the famed iron-strong legions of Rome are long gone. Voltaire's comment is what we would expect at the feet stage. It is like Voltaire saying of the feet-toes stage of the Empire,
“It is neither strong, united, nor legs of iron.”
Amen. Daniel 2 predicts the divided, weaker stage of post-empire Rome. But this “divided” Rome will yet revive when the “10 toes (kings)” unite into a single Kingdom. (Rev. 17:12) Now, turn to Daniel 2:44 in your Bible and read what will happen “in the days of those kings…”…..and from The Assyrian Connection:"
1. Daniel 2:35 & 44 says Babylon, Persia, & Greece will exist until the end time.
2. Greece was composed of 4 sub-kingdoms—Egypt, Syria & Turkey. Thus, they also will exist. John’s vision in Rev. 17:9-11— the Rome-Timeframe Formula— repositions Egypt, (As)Syria & Turkey to their “heyday” as Empires “a little while” T I M E until the end time.
3. Syria was the remnant territory—& Greek-namesake— of the dead Empire, Assyria.
4. There is no history book—& no current newspaper—that doesn’t testify that Egypt, Babylon (Iraq), Persia (Iran), Greece & Turkey have lasted throughout history in one form or the other and continue to exist today. But not Assyria. It died in 612 BC.
5. Rev. 13 shows the dead head of Assyria coming to life, bringing the Antichrist-Beast to life. Assyria’s land equates with Syria-Iraq."….
“It is provocative that the Prophet Micah refers to this final conqueror as the “Assyrian.” Chuck Missler
Chuck Missler, Personal Update, October, 2002, p.8.
THE ISSUE: When Bible Prophecy says that Jesus Christ will deliver “the remnant of Jacob” from “the Assyrian,” who is from “the land of Assyria,” which is in “the land of Nimrod,” can we take “Assyria” literally?"…." J. Dwight Pentecost, one of this generations most respected Bible prophecy commentators, places Micah 5:5-6 in the timeframe of the Antichrist.22 Tim LaHaye does also.23 Even with the correct time context, some commentators will still symbolize the designation “Assyrian.” But here is why it should be seen as a literal term:
1. Assyria is used side-by-side with a literal Egypt in Micah 7:12.
2. In Micah 5:2 we have the famous Messianic prophecy about a literal Bethlehem. Three verses later we find mention of Assyria 3 times. One literal, the other not?
3. In a two-verse span (5:5-7) we see “Assyria,” “land of Nimrod,” and “remnant of Jacob” interwoven with one an-other. The last two are clearly literal terms. It is purely arbitrary to call the thrice-mentioned Assyria symbolic.
4. The “land of Assyria” is equated with the “land of Nimrod.” This is like pointing your finger to a map.
5. In view of the above, Micah 5:5-6 says,
Christ will deliver the remnant of Jacob from the Assyrian, of the land of Assyria, which is the land of Nimrod.
The stretch that is required to wrench the term “Assyrian” into something other than what it says would be admirable—except this is the Bible.
… And Micah 5:5-6, taken liter-ally, is a “flashback.” Within the Millennial context, the text takes a “flashback” look at the invasion of Israel by one called the Assyrian during the Tribulation. …But the term “Assyrian” is literal and it is future. The Assyrian invades Israel at the end time. He attacks her cities and tramples her land. And it is at that climactic time when “He [Christ] will deliver us [Israel] from the Assyrian.” (5:6) The Assyrian is none other than the Antichrist."

Sal said...

Micah 5 is all over the place, Don.

First it starts with Jesus' crucifixion, then birth, then Israel's exile, then the return, then the Millennial Kingdom. The next section picks up with 7 shephers/8 leaders ruling Assyria, then we're back into the exile, then the Tribulation.

How then can Micah 5 be timed at the Tribulation, and then make the huge leap that the Assyrian is the Antichrist? Makes more sense he's Antiochus Epiphenes.

If Goodman's Asssyrian theory is based primarily on Micah 5, then it's the linchpin when pulled results in the whole theory falling apart.

Don said...

Sal, as you know, the Bible doesn't present prophecy myopically. Rather, several prophetic events are presented as a single prophecy, even though they may be separated by hundred's of years. And Sal, I am sure that you are aware that nearly all prophecies have both a partial (near) and a complete (far) fulfillment. One writer described it as if you were on a mountaintop and looked out across several other distant mountaintops, which you can see quite clearly. Well, Sal, those valleys between these great mountains represent years, sometimes centuries. That is the beauty of God's design. God, who exists outside of time, presents these prophetic events as occurring simultaneously, concurrently, and as have already occurred (in past tense)! A good example of this is Isaiah 53, the Suffering Servant. It is a prophecy of Jesus and his suffering, but it is presented in present tense-because to Almighty God, it is such a certainity, that He describes it as having already happened.
Brother Sal, it seems as we have drifted away from Nathan's topic, and if you have not yet made up your mind, may I suggest that we continue our discussion at the blog for Prophecy Watch at:
http://www.prophecywatch.com/news/theantichristeastorwest_jan2609

brainspaz said...

Region or world?

G1093 γῆ gē ghay Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, OR the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, WORLD.

All the following verses use G1093 for the word earth.

Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the EARTH.

Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the EARTH, holding back the four winds of the EARTH, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.

Rev 13:12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the EARTH and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the EARTH will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new EARTH; for the first heaven and the first EARTH passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence EARTH and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

Rev 21:24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the EARTH will bring their glory into it.

Anonymous said...

Additional discussions of this topic on the following blog as well: http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=1994