Thursday, March 12, 2009

An Urgent Message From David Wilkerson

Nathan JonesPDFBy Nathan Jones

What started as a post on the famed "The Cross and the Switchblade" evangelist's David Wilkerson Today blog has turned into a red hot topic of discussion among Christians, spilling over into news sites and reports all over world media outlets. What did David Wilkerson write that has not only believers in Christ but also the mainstream media rising up and paying attention to? The answer is judgment on the United States in the form of the soon destruction of New York City.

Posted as "An Urgent Message" on Saturday, March 7, 2009, the Reverend David Wilkerson wrote:

"I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world.

AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE — EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.

For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires — such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.

There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting — including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God's wrath...

God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations. He is destroying the secular foundations."

Reverend Wilkerson then goes on to warn God's people to prepare for the calamity and "lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials."

For the full message, visit David Wilkerson Today or World Challenge, Inc.


The Man

What does one make of Pastor Wilkinson's warning? This is a difficult call, because David Wilkerson the evangelist and the prophet are two different things.

David Wilkerson the evangelist is truly one of the greats of the 20th Century. His brave work in witnessing to New York City street gang members since 1958 was made into the book "The Cross and the Switchblade" that is a must read for urban missionaries and caught the eyes of movie makers whose video rendition has become a Christian video classic. Tens of thousands of people through New York City's Times Square Church that Wilkerson founded have come to know Christ and been saved from very rough backgrounds. Hundreds of thousands more have been touched by Wilkerson's ministry World Challenge through crusades, ministers' conferences, book and tract publishing, video production, street evangelism, literature distribution, feeding programs, drug and alcohol rehabilitation centers and other charitable outreaches.

David Wilkerson the prophet, though, is a different story. Who's Who in Bible Prophecy at reports:

"Best known for his popular book 'The Cross and the Switchblade' he has been a prominent predictor of end-time events. Sadly, his numerous doomsday predictions have never come true, making him a significant false prophet. Since the 1970s he has consistently written about the destruction of America. Many turn to him for prophetic wisdom, confused about Bible prophecy vs. prophetic predictions. Wilkerson is known to avoid Bible prophecy topics, rather suggesting a 'pan-rapture' theology, meaning 'if we trust in Jesus, it will all pan out.'"


The Message

Is Reverend Wilkerson correct in proclaiming such a specific, extra-biblical prediction of judgment from God?

I don't put any stock in extra-biblical predictions for obvious, biblical reasons. But, David Wilkerson is a man who has earned at least being listened to. For one, he passes all the ethical tests for being a prophet (see "How to Recognize a False Prophet"). And secondly, Reverend Wilkerson may not be prophesying per se, but may be living out Acts 2:17 which declares, "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

We are certainly hurtling towards the Tribulation with increasing speed and intensity, like "birth pains" as Jesus stated in Mark 13:8. We have all read in the news the evidence of this progression. If the Holy Spirit is giving David Wilkerson a dream of the future that's part of the global judgment to come, then we can take it as that. If it is prophecy, then we need to heed Deuteronomy 18:22 which warns, "When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously..."


The Warning

Whatever the source of the warning concerning judgment upon America, believers in Christ should take God's national judgment on sin very seriously. As Dr. David Reagan writes:

"I am very respectful of Dave Wilkerson's prophetic statements. I consider him to be God's Jeremiah to the United States. He stated over 20 years ago that God had given him a vision of New York burning and American disintegrating into civil lawlessness. He warned then that we should repent. He believes now that we have reached the point where God has decided to deliver us from judgment to destruction, and that his visions of years ago are about to become a reality. I would agree. We need to be praying for our nation as never before."

American Christians must pray and evangelize like David Wilkerson to make a difference for Christ in the United States and in the world. We also must understand that judgment can fall upon America without that judgment having anything to do with the Tribulation, or seek escape by the Rapture. The Rapture and Tribulation are special events meant for God's pouring out his wrath upon the whole world in judgment and for creating a Jewish nation that accepts Jesus as Messiah. If America falls, like many nations and empires have over the last 2,000 years, it could well be separate from the global judgment to come. Heed David Wilkerson's advice and prepare for tough times ahead, but keep your eyes set on the nation all believers will one day call home — Jesus Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

52 comments:

son of thunder said...

I see how this prophecy could be fulfilled in one of two ways.

1) Is a terror attack in various cities across America. We know that certain terror groups have nukes and possibly biological weapons, and with a coward in the White House, who's already being tested by China and N. Korea as V.P. Biden predicted, they know he wouldn't fight back.

2) And this is what I think most likely, that with the economic situation and people demanding that Big Brother baby-sit us by giving us free this and free that, that we (America) will NOT be able to maintain the "gimme" attitude. Welfare will go away. Free food will cease. Free healthcare will vanish. The well WILL run dry and we WILL have riots in the streets.

As much as it pains me, America MUST cease to exist as we know, or have known, it for the New World Order to come to fruition.

Church of God, do NOT be afraid.

Even so, come, Lord Yeshua.

Billy said...

Frankly, I'm not impressed with someone who continously spouts false prophecy no matter how good he may be at evangelism. Though I know next to nothing about this man, I am forced to assume he is a nut based on what I just read in this blog. I don't think he has helped Christianity at all by his rants. He should stick to evangelism and leave the prophecy to true prophets. I trust people like Dr. Reagan who don't try to make up prophecy but stick to teaching us about the only prophecy you CAN count on which is found in the Bible.

Billy said...

An additional thought...if this were to happen (even if not exactly as predicted) then this guy would now become an overnight celebrity "prophet". This could lead to delusions of grandeur and some dangerous false prophecy. Millions could be deceived by someone who would be blinded by celebrity limelight. Perhaps my comments are not justified. I just know that I am very skeptical, cautious and guarded over people who claim to be prophets.

son of thunder said...

I agree, Billy, that the only 100% proven prophecy is in the Bible and you can always trust what it says, even though many times we don't, myself included. And many times prophecies are fulfilled much, much later (look at the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament).

But, nothing Wilkerson said is actually unbiblical. Paul wrote under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, that perilous times would come. Jesus Himself said that just like Noah's time violence would fill the earth.

My pastor has said many times that he sees riots filling the streets due to lack of food, work, etc (and this was before the current economic situation). He doesn't claim to be a prophet, but he can rightly interpret the Bible. Even some economists have predicted food and work riots possibly in the near future.

Anonymous said...

Does it seem to you that as we begin to move more and more against Israel (recent news about Clinton in Israel is very eyeopening) that the situation in US gets worse? Natural disasters, economically, etc. The problems we face appear to be worsening since Bush began to push for the "two state" solution.

son of thunder said...

And we should be very cautious of people who claim to be prophets. We must use the Biblical standard of prophecy: If it doesn't come to pass, then it is a false prophecy and we shouldn't listen to them.

In Wilkerson's case though, the only prophecies I'm aware of are about the destruction of the USA. If we are honest with ourselves, and we take a good look around, the foundations of this once great nation are collapsing. God is judging us over kicking Him out of school, endorsing homosexuality, murdering 50 million unborn children, making money our god, etc.

Of course I'm taking this with a grain of salt, but we will know for sure if and when it happens.

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah didn't listen to Lot, either.

son of thunder said...

Anonymous, God said that He would bless the one who blesses Israel, and would curse the one who curses.

Every time we mess around with that burdensome stone, Jerusalem, America gets hurt, as God said would happen to anyone who messes with His chosen people.

When the US gave the Gazans weapons, we were hit with Katrina. When Condi Rice went over to Israel for the final time, our economy began to collapse. When George H.W. Bush (Bush the 1st) was in Spain pushing his "two-state" solution, his home was hit by the "Perfect Storm."

These are but a few of hundreds of cases. And messing with Israel is like poking God in the apple of His eye.

The reason we do these things, is because our leaders (many of them very religious) fall for the lie that is taught in many churches that when the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah all the promises God made to them transfered over to the church. The Jews are a mystery and no one seems to know what to do about the Jewish "problem."

Billy said...

General speculation of doom and decline for the United States is fine. But this man has made some very specific prophecy including mapping out which states will be hit.

Jesus told us to be cautious in the end times about people who do things in his name (prophecy, miracles, etc.) They may be wolves in sheeps clothing. I'm not trying to attack Wilkerson, I just agree with Nathan's comment:

"I don't put any stock in extra-biblical predictions for obvious, biblical reasons."

son of thunder said...

I agree totally, Billy, with both you and Nathan, that's why I stated that I take it with a grain of salt. If he's going to say exactly how and where it's going to happen he has to be 100% correct.

Only God and time will tell if he's correct or not. There are a lot of people out there who want to be the next voice of one crying in the wilderness and making the ways straight for the Lord.

It's a lot like Pat Robertson and his annual prophecies that have a 0% accuracy rate: It makes believers look like lunatics.

So we definately have to be cautious about who says what and when. The MSM love this kind of thing because they are controlled by Satan, and he loves to try to destroy God's Kingdom. But, on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't right.

All4JHWH said...

I believe that God gives the gift of prophesy to some (in these end times) and that the spirit allows them to discern, from a biblical world view, future events that may not be specifically outlined in the bible. I believe this based on Acts 2:17. I am also very skeptical about false prophets and I only trust in a few biblical scholars such a David Reagan, David Jeremiah, and others that show true discernment. I don’t know much about this man, but based on his fruit, and the fact that Dr. Reagan indorses him - and that no harm would come from believing this prophesy (not to mention the spirit that moved with-in me when I read it) - I would have to say that this is the first extra-biblical prophecy that I have heard that I agree with. I believe that the Lord has blessed me with discernment and an ability to read his word and discern the times for which we are living (to know what is right and what is wrong) and I pray that every member of the body will be given greater discernment as the times draw near so that we will hear his warnings and not be deceived. I also believe that God gives specific prophesies to those whom he chooses and I pray for those who are given the gift of prophesy, that they will not be afraid to prophesy to the believers. I applaud David Wilkerson for listening to the spirit and not to fear.
1 Corinthians 14
1(A) Pursue love, and(B) earnestly desire the(C) spiritual gifts, especially that you may(D) prophesy.
6Now, brothers,[a] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some(G) revelation or knowledge or prophecy or(H) teaching? 7If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8And(I) if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?

Anonymous said...

I too wondered when I saw the news headline and article from David Wilkerson. I only know him through his book and movie about his work in NYC amongst tough people and surroundings. I read the link in Who's Who in Prophecy and don't know what to think about that evaluation of prophets (although I agree with most of the statements). But personally, I would lump Hal Lindsey in with the questionable crowd since he had some time lines to his prophecies which did not come true. An apology doesn't erase the fact that he was wrong.

I personally don't believe there are any prophets in the strictest since anywhere in the world since The Revelation was sealed. But I do believe that as we get closer to the fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy God will give certain men the discernment to "see" the specifics of what may have been unknown to even the prophet himself. That the "signs of the times" will become clearer and that God will give the ministries of Dr. Reagan, Mike Mickey, Joel Rosenburg - and yes maybe even Hal Lindsey and David Wilkerson - the ability to warn us that things long ago predicted are coming to pass in our time. I agree with Billy and Son of Thunder that we should proceed with caution on David Wilkersons (or anyone for that matter) specific insight. But I would also caution that Scripture reveals that Jeremiah was given prophecies for the nation of Judah, very specific prophecies, that took decades to come true. His own people at first listened but after years of non-fulfillment they began to ignore him, they ridiculed him and even attacked him. However, as would be expected of a true God given prophecy Judah's destruction did come and they were carried off just as God had warned Jeremiah. So drawing an analagy, if David Wilkerson has been prophesying specific things about NYC/America's judgement, just because they haven't happened yet doesn't mean they are to be completely disregarded. Perhaps as Dr. Reagan said God was giving us a chance to repent, to turn back from our rebellion against Him. But now maybe God has said OK I have tried to tell them what will happen, I gave them the word they needed to heed, they chose to ignore the warning, so now judgement must follow - just like I said. At that point we will know whether or not David Wilkerson is a False Prophet or a True Prophet. I think the problem with us Americans is that we like things yesterday and we can't wait, patience is not in our vocabulary. But as I recall the timeline...Jeremiah prophesied for 40 years before the specifics were fulfilled.

I also think as the Son of Thunder and All4JHWH in that when I read the article something stirred in me. Something tells me what David said might be right, operative word is might). I can't claim any special discernment like Dr. Reagan but Wilkersons words make some sense given all the other signs we are seeing in prophetic fulfillment. There are many in the world who have nuclear weapons (N. Korea)and dirty bombs (terrorists backed by Iran, Syria) that could cause the destruction predicted. These groups hate our guts. Also, I feel fairly certain God is attacking our man made idol of money and greed, and the symbol of that idol is centered in NYC, specifically Wall Street. Again, look in Exodus and you should notice that the plagues of Egypt were not random. In each instance God specifically attacked an Egyptian god to show that the man-made was powerless against the True and Living God. And, even if it is not a weapon of mass destruction or some other attack by a foreign entity God could still allow our idol to completely collapse and the ensuing panic and desperation could result in riots that come in the form of destruction and arson. Thus, the warning from David Wilkerson might have some validity because it seems obvious to me that America has turned the corner of no return in our rebellion against God as a society. Read the Old Testament and there are too many examples to count of how God judged the Israelites when they turned their hearts to their own desires and their own hand made gods. If God punished His Chosen People for such idolatry why would He not judge America?

Just a thought. And yes even if David Wilkerson is off the mark I feel in my heart that God would have me store supplies for my family (wife and 5 beautiful children). I have been doing so for a little over a year beginning with the purchase of a generator. And I am going to increase my food and dry goods supply to withstand 30 days minimum disruption in service. Prudence would be wise in my opinion.

Rob from Alabama

Anonymous said...

Guys, lets please stick to Biblical facts. I'm starting to see a trend where Bible prophecy people are reaching for everything or anybody who has a prophecy - especially if it's a flashy one.

I'm seeing on TV a very respected Bible prophecy person and his wife pointing to Nostadomus, Edgar Casey, and other occult users pointing to 2012.

If we start pointing to other people's personal prophecies we're just fueling the prophecy critics. If I had listened to Mr. Wilkerson and bought 30 days of none perishable food back in the 1980s it would have almost expired by now.

I'm seeing another prophecy person who has had multiple wives being thrown into the spotlight. Character counts during these last days!

We need to point to God's Word and have people of character stand behind His words.

Greg in NC

SeanOsborne said...

Nathan,

Excellent write-up concerning brother Dave Wilkerson's warning.

I choose to heed this warning.

I know that in the months preceeding 9/11 the Holy Spirit moved powerfully the Times Square Church.

On the burden of the Holy Spirit all manner of conferences, conventions, speaking engagements, you name it, were summarily cancelled.

Prayer vigils were 24/7 for at least 7 weeks prior to 9/11. At one point what is described as a "Holy Hush" overtook the entire congregation, the Spirit moved powerfully and absolute silence was maintained for at least one hour, possibly longer. People trembled at the presence of God.

Those who call Pastor Wilkerson a "false prophet" are in some error and do not know the truth of that time and what transpired just over 7 years ago.

Yes, I choose to heed this warning. We all should.

Anonymous said...

Greg, agreed. Absolutely, we should stick to the Bible and what the Author has said as His is the final Authority. This has always been true, for Old Testament prophets and New Testament teachers. I apologize if I indicated otherwise, for me the Bible is the Final Word.

However, the dilema is that God's Word also said to test the prophets - meaning, to me, that we should give at least some small measure to their words and compare them to Scripture. You can't deny what Acts 2:17 says regarding how God will allow prophecies and dreams in the End of Times. If you read Joel Rosenburg (who is respected on that Whos Who list) he definitely sees fulfillment of this as Muslims are receiving dreams that for many, not all, is absolutely crucial to their conversion out of Islam. It is as if God is pouring out His Spirit in our time so that people in darkness can come to the Light of Christ before it's too late.

God's Word didn't say for us to disregard prophecies and interpretations entirely without any consideration, unless of course their history of failed interpretation indicates otherwise. In that thought I was merely trying to point out that Jeremiah, definitely a prophet from God, was ridiculed for 40 years and the prophecies were very specific yet it took decades for them to come to pass. And David Wilkerson, as you said, made some specific comments in the 1980's - half that time frame. We should give him some consideration simply because he is a respected evangelist who, as far as I know, doesn't have any un-Biblical doctrines. I honestly don't know what to make of it all, but I shall try my best to test it against what God has said in the tried and true Scriptures. As I said, I was going to use caution in this particular instance.

As for the supplies I came to this conclusion before David Wilkerson's prophecy and even before last years election. I simply began to feel, and yes I prayed about it, that there would be some prudence in preparing for a time of trouble in human terms. I absolutely believe God is on His throne and He will provide for His children and I am not worried about it. But, I still believe America will most likely be judged for our idolatry and disregard for the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and what He has revealed to us about Himself and His plan of Salvation in Jesus. And as with Jeremiah, Nehemiah and other prophets God's people may have to endure with the wicked who truly turned away from God. God has entrusted me with 6 other lives and as head of my household God will hold me accountable and as I said I feel He would have me be prepared a little and I will trust in Him for the outcome. And if a lot of time goes by, at least we will have some supplies bought at todays prices which most likely will be cheaper than tomorrows prices.

Rob from Alabama.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Wilkerson is a very well respected teacher and author. I personally have been moved by his biblically based articles available on his World Challenge Pulpit Series webpages. At one time in my life I was hurt so badly by others that I cried and prayed for weeks. I found one of his articles titled "When We Hurt" and read it. I felt instantly calmed and began to glorify Jesus for fullfilling my prayers for peace. My comments nearly duplicate Rob from Alabama. We have to be very prudent and very discerning about statements such as Pastor Wilkerson's, however not only does acts 2:17 mention: "'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS", but the bible also teaches us that God gave us various different gifts or talents such as:
Rom 12:6 "Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith", also 1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
1Co 12:2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.
1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
1Co 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Sorry for the long post, but my bible tells me that God does give the gift of prophecy. I also know from the bible that most of the Old Testament prophets had to wait decades for their prophecies to be realized, its all in Gods timeing. I believe "Whos Who in Bible Prophecy" has unfairly critized DW by categorizing him though (biblically speaking) only began prophesing a short time ago.

That said there are MANY MANY false prophets out there, we absolutely have to use discernment, by that I mean you have to listen to word and discern whether it is based on true biblical principals. I do not believe prophecy must exactly match something previously prophesied in the bible, but that it must be from the heart and biblically based. An imposter (man of sin) could easily duplicate this which is why we need to pray about these types of messages in hope for discernment. The really obvious so called prophets, if you read their works, you will find they are all over the place, lacking in flow and consistency.

When I read DW's message I too was stirred inside...

These types of times are coming its only a question of when.

Give Praise to God in Jesus Holy Name... Amen!

David in Virginia

tmrfiles said...

I think you need to be extremely cautious and not infer or refer to a man of God such as David Wilkerson as a prophet. He has never once claimed this title. I also recommend that one heed the message.

Billy said...

Wilkerson does a disservice to Christianity! The Bible says we are to give each other HOPE and ENCOURAGEMENT about the future because the Lord will take us in the Rapture. We are NOT destined for the WRATH of God.

Wilkerson says Christians are going to experience God's wrath in his unbiblical predictions. This is not giving Christians HOPE or ENCOURAGEMENT. His comments should be ignored.

Mitchell said...

Billy said, "The Bible says we are to give each other HOPE and ENCOURAGEMENT about the future because the Lord will take us in the Rapture. We are NOT destined for the WRATH of God."

You are correct, and I agree Billy, all the warning we need is already provided in Scripture. However if you are referring to the Blessed Hope of Titus 2:13 we should note that the Blessed Hope is not the Rapture itself according to the text, it is what is written two verses earlier in Titus 2:11 -- salvation. Tts 2:13 reads "Looking for that blessed hope" that was just referred to, ie, the grace of God that brings salvation. Reading the verse in full helps us, notice the word "and" in Tts 2:13, "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." So we look forward to the blessed hope of salvation, and (as well as, in addition to) the glorious appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ.

Regarding the wrath of God, I agree. Revelation and elsewhere makes it quite clear however that the wrath of God does not come until immediately after the tribulation (see the cosmic signs of Revelation 6 what the day of His wrath comes and when Jesus says this happens in Matthew 24).

son of thunder said...

The Bible does give hope and encouragement for the believer, but at no time does the Bible say we will excluded from any tribulation, just the Tribulation which happens after the signing of a peace treaty with Israel.

Just ask yourself, how many Christians were excluded from the current economic situation? We've all felt the pinch in some way.

We are not excluded from suffering in this life. That's where we have a "secret weapon": Faith. This is a hard lesson I've had to learn for the past few months, and if I weren't so hard-headed my suffering would probably have been done earlier.

So if there is any credence in this prophecy, and I'm giving it some, we need to have FAITH that YHVH will provide for His children.

Billy said...

I guess I may be delving into semantics. Christians are not exempt from suffering but I truly believe we are exempt from wrath. Wrath is a judgement. We are forgiven by the blood of Christ and exempt from judgemental wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5-9: For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5-11: Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

I personally prefer to focus on the salvation of Jesus which equates to a pardon from wrath which gives me hope and encouragement in a world with a bleak future. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

Mitchell said...

son of thunder,

Hi brother, good post, I agree that the Bible says we are not excluded from tribulation and we would be wise to anticipate hard times ahead. I would also say though that the Bible does not even exclude us from "the Tribulation which happens after the signing of a peace treaty with Israel" so it would also be wise in my opinion to keep our eyes open in the times ahead as well.

Mitchell said...

Billy said, "Christians are not exempt from suffering but I truly believe we are exempt from wrath"

It's so good to know that we have been forgiven and will not suffer the wrath of God, as imperfect and deserving as we all are, Christ has saved us. In fact, the tense of 1 Thessalonians 1:10 says that He has already delivered us: "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

Billy said...

I believe (understand I am not a scholar) that the context of this message to the Thessalonians is that they were worried about being subject to the end times horrors. They were reassured that they were saved and these horrific judgements of wrath were not intended for believers saved by Christ. This applies to us today just as it did to them. We are not condemned to experience the wrath of God but the grace of Christ. This is the message I would prefer to be at the forefront of evangelists as opposed to extra-biblical predictions of destruction. Let's be hopeful and encouraged and look with joy to the soon return of our Lord and not be worried or anixous.

Anonymous said...

Billy, Mitchell -

Billy said "Christians are not exempt from suffering but I truly believe we are exempt from wrath."


I agree with what you all are saying about how Christ is our Hope and our Rock that will allow us to endure all we could possibly face in this life. He is the only answer we need to life's problems.

But I am curious about the semantics between suffering and wrath, wrath as I understand what David Wilkerson is saying, not the wrath of God on an unbelieving world that rejects Christ. And I am not defending David Wilkerson as I only know OF him and not ABOUT him, I am simply going to test what he has said against the Scriptures. And I agree with another poster that as far as I can tell he never claimed the title of prophet (I apologize if I am wrong but that is the beside the point for my question at this time).

I just get the impression, again brother I apologize if I am reading too much into it, that you feel suffering is a lesser form of tribulation. That would in my mind imply that Christians may be made uncomfortable or a little put out in some form of discipline, but that we could never experience the type human horror and fear as Mr. Wilkerson has seen it. In the Old Testament Judah had to go into captivity as part of God's discipline, they witnessed a seige on and the destruction of Jerusalem. And as I remember Josephus described the seige as being so long and horrible that mothers and fathers ate their children. Was this not the ultimate in fear and horror and weren't there some righteous people (wasn't Jeremiah there) who had to endure that as well as the unrighteous. In the first couple of centuries after Christ didn't Christians have to endure unimagineable tortures and brutalities as the hands of the Romans? This was more than simple economic uncertainty and discomfort. Any I agree God was still there to comfort and sustain them in that persecution.

What I am trying to say is if, and that is certainly a big IF, God choses to discipline America is it not possible that he could use the types of events Mr. Wilkerson describes (let me state again I am not defending him or saying I take what he has said as fact). We are a somewhat arrogant nation and we have thumbed our noses and raised our hands in open rebellion of God so perhaps a judgement on us could be severe. As Dr. Reagan says God most often chooses to use other nations, other people or other "natural" events to execute His judgement. And is it not possible that we as Christians may have to suffer in these awful judgements along with non-Christians. After all where were we when Roe v. Wade was passed allowing the murder of 50 million children. Let's be honest had the Christians of that time ( I was only 9 when that court ruling was made) truly been the salt and light, had they been influencing America for Christ could such a thing have happened - so maybe we need a little punishment for our complacency. And although my Hope is built on nothing less than Jesus Christ, that type of Judgement may cause my human knees to tremble and cause me to weep human tears and cry out to God as I witness the horror and destruction.

Again, I don't have the answers, God did not consult with me on His perfect plans. I actually hope David Wilkerson is wrong, and he may most likely be wrong, because I like my nice quiet life in Alabama with my family. But Dr. Reagan, Joel Rosenburg and others I read who are perhaps more respectable also believe America will be taken off the scene by something big and potentially wrathful. Although they haven't made specific claims as has Mr. Wilkerson they still feel it could be something big. I am only one Christian who is trying to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am not infallable - although I might be a legend in my own mind (just kidding). If we can discuss this as brothers and sisters in Christ it will be that hope and encouragement of which you speak. I firmly believe God has given each of us gifts and ways of thinking and coping with this sin sick world so that we can work together for His glory and also for our benefit as fellow believers as we serve Him.

Just thinking & enjoying the discussion - Rob from Alabama

Mitchell said...

Billy said, "We are not condemned to experience the wrath of God but the grace of Christ."

True. When it comes to the wrath of God, it is not appointed for believers in Christ. The saints of God have never been subject to the wrath of God. It is reserved only for:

Eph 5:6 - the "sons of disobedience"

Rom 1:18 - "all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"

John 3:36 - those who "believeth not [in] the Son"

Rom 2:8 - "them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness"

I think there is sometimes a misunderstanding of what the wrath of God is, and when it comes according to Scripture. Many think that it is the full 70th week of Daniel or the last 3.5 years of Great Tribulation, however the Scriptures tell us that the day of His wrath (Day of the Lord) does not come until immediately after the tribulation. (Rev 6:17; Rev 11:18).

Billy said...

Rob,

I would try to clarify what I mean by saying Christians are subject to discipline (call it suffering, tribulation, whatever) out of God's love. (Like a parent having to discipline a child).

But we are not subject to wrath which is an angry judgemental final solution to put an end to something once and for all.

Therefore, I'm saying I think Christians are exempt from the final Tribulation period wrath of God whereby God deals with pure unsavable evil for the last time.

Billy said...

Hmmm...based on my last post I'm wondering if my "take" on Wilkerson is changing...

(Though I still think Wilkerson's article is extra-Biblical and nothing to write home about).

hartdawg said...

yo everyone, i am so poor i have to choose between toothpaste, shampoo or laundry soap. i cant afford all 3. therefore even if his predictions thats if, i cant afford to stock up so i am gonna have to trust god to provide

Mitchell said...

Rob from Alabama,

You make a lot of good points. I would add that we need to differentiate between tribulation, judgment, and the Wrath of God.

We are guaranteed tribulation as followers of Christ (John 16:33), therefore "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22). We ought to rejoice in tribulation "knowing that tribulation produces perseverance" (Rom 5:3) and rejoice to the extent that we partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, we may also be glad with exceeding joy (1 Pet 4:13).

If we are complacent and become luke-warm and lose sight of what it means to be a follower of Christ we begin to lose our "saltiness", and we know that salt loses its usefulness if it loses its preservation. We can see why judgment is necessary. 1 Peter 4:17 says that "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" If we fail to judge ourselves God has His way of saying, "Hey, get with it." As parents we discipline our children because we love them, likewise God sometimes need to discipline His children whom He loves as well. As you point out above, I do believe that "as Christians may have to suffer in these awful judgements along with non-Christians."

The end of those who do not obey the gospel of God will be the Wrath of God, which is the ultimate judgment that is reserved only for the wicked.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. I wasn't trying to be petty or to beat a dead horse with semantics. I agree with you that there is a more awful judgement that will befall those who reject Christ that we call the Wrath of God and that believers sufferings in this life will pale in comparison to that judgement. Mr. Wilkerson's article and these comments about his impressions supposedly from the Spirit raised an interesting question regarding America and American Christians. I appreciate the dialog with you guys, there is noone in my circle of Christian fellowship except my immediate family that has an interest in this, and unfortunately outside my family none has the maturity to discuss this in Biblical terms. In the final analysis I will let God decide His discipline, and I feel certain we must be disciplined, and I will rest in His all-powerful and all-loving hand from which neither Satan nor anything in this world can snatch me.

Rob from Alabama
John 14:6

Mitchell said...

Amen brother, God bless...

El Milenio said...

Dear Nathan, the moment I have dreaded has arrived, the apostasy have increase to levels never seen, every evangelist even here in Nicaragua since I have know our Lord Jesus, 20 year ago, have predictions towards the evil New York?? Why, do you believe that New York is Babylon; I don't think so, United States are an ally of Israel, if United States fall from this with the New Administration, Dooms Day for North America, our efforts must be, evangelize, prepare to be raptured and seek Jesus Christ's Millennial Kingdom. Our Prayers on United States, God Bless Dr. David Reagan Ministry and all Staff, including you Nathan Jones, please tell Dr. Reagan I admire his sincerity, easy reading articles, since I studied, I have great spiritual growth and knowledge of our beloved Master Jesus Christ, thank you very much, humbleness are greats attributes of an Jesus servant, stay it so.

God bless you all...

Greetings from Managua, Nicaragua.
Carlos Chamorro Schutze

Nathan Jones said...

I agree, El Milenio. New York City is hardly Babylon. There are other cities more qualified.

El Milenio said...

Our Prayers on United States,

Greetings from Managua, Nicaragua.
Carlos Chamorro Schutze

matthew said...

Hi, an interesting article Nathan, thank you. I took it seriously because it was from David Wilkerson, who has had a true ministry, as you say as an evanagelist but also preaching very powerfully at Times Square Church. He is a true man of God, in that he preaches the gospel without compromise and in love with a clear anionting. I have a great deal of respect for him. I also note that he has never described himself as a prophet, but as a watchman. I think he may well have heard from God, but I think one of the easiest things to get wrong is timing- it is easy for someone to truly hear God but assume that what He has said is about to happen immediately. So, yes, I think we should take it seriously, but going out and buying 30 days worth of food might not be too clever.

El Milenio said...

North America will fall down before the rapture??
I do not think so!

Anonymous said...

Is there not Scripture that references that a true prophet is always 100% accurate? I can see David Wilkerson's "vision" as a warning taken from looking at the world situation. But reading his words I feel like I am back at IHOP / International House of Prayer, and I run from that now. I do not believe that he is speaking as a prophet or that this is a vision he has actually received. But I do know - from the Bible and from current world events - that we are indeed in the last days. And how far we as Christians go into tribulation prior to the Tribulation itself is not known to us. But what a blessed Hope we have in our Lord Jesus Christ to provide strength and peace when this world offers just the opposite!

Anonymous said...

In a time of prayer the Lord said to me: America is under judgment mainly because of these two things.

1. The innocent blood of 49 million children slaughtered to the god's of careers and pleasure.
see- Psalms 106:38 and Numbers 35:33.
2. The marriage and approval of Homosexuals. see- Leviticus 20:13
2 Peter 2:4-6 Jude 7

"The nation that forgets God shall be turned into hell."

The Lord also said: "The time of sorrows has come."

Joel Spencer said...

It is my duty as one who hears and heeds the voice of the Spirit to inform the Body of Christ to awaken from Her slumber. It is time She shake off the dust of traditions and sees Herself as the beautiful Bride of the soon-returning Christ.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of Mr. Wilkerson's visions, it is always a good idea to have a 30-day storage of food and water.

You can see what is happening all around us. The anger, turmoil, the attack on God in our society. Those that read and know God's word, know what is ahead of us. I feel like I have been watching a movie lately...events unfolding at a very fast rate.

Why is it bad to be just a little bit prepared? New Orleans was a huge example to us...we have been given many examples over the past few years.

Whatever the message or who its from...its all about being prepared! Most importantly about accepting Christ as your Savior. Why make it so complicated? I believe its very, very simple!

Anonymous said...

Re: false versus true prophet. Be sure to pray for discernment on all prophecies not in the Word of God. In the end times there Will be false prophets and there will be signs and wonders and miracles. We need to discern which are false and which are true. Take Mr Wilkerson as someone who sees possibilities if the world continues on as it is, or possibly a continuation of the 9-11-2001 occurrance. We DO know Jesus will return. Repent and lean into the shelter of the Lord. See you at the Rapture.

JES said...

There is a difference in the gift of the Holy Spirit prophecy and Jesus gift of a prophet.

The gift of prophecy is not found in the first covenant as the Holy Spirit had not been poured out as Jesus had not yet been resurrected This happened on the day of Pentecost.

Jesus gave the gift of a prophet to the church as one of five to equip the believer for their work of service and to bring forth a unity of faith and maturing into the image of Jesus.

The Hoyl Spirit gift of prophecy is to comfort, encourage and exhort. Now that the Holy Spirit has been poured out all can prophesy.

If one who has the gift of prophecy does not understand the boundaries of their gift they may go into the realm of the prophet's ministry. When this happens you can have problems as they do not speak with the authority of a prophet.

The spirit of prophecy is that of Jesus. If one does not have this spirit, prophecy will seem foolish to their natural mind as it must be spirituall discerend and judged.

I do not know of any Scripture that indicates the church of today is to be without the ministry of the prophet. The sad truth is that because the church, for the most part, does not recognize this ministry or the ministry of the Apostle we have a weak powerless church as the church is to built upon these two ministries.

I am not surprised to find there is confusion as to true and false prophets and the ministry of a prophet since the church primarily only knows about the pastor, evangelist and teacher.

In the first covenant we find that when Israel went astray God first sent the prophet, next it was natural calamities then a wicked king and finally a conquering army.

I am not sure God has raised up a prophet to be his spokeman to our nation. I do know there have been various prophets who have spoken out and called our nation to repent. I do know we have and are still facing various calamities. Now we have a wicked king and I do not see any evidence of repentance

In fact our president has revoked executive orders that were aimed at making our nation more moral and added new immoral orders. We are now also facing the conquering army that believes they have a mandate from God to wipe us out.

A few weeks ago I gave a prophetic word that if you have been wearied contending with the horsemen what will you do when the horsemen come and God says they are coming. But before they come there is going to be a short time when it will seem that all is well. It is a time to allow us to prepare and be ready for the horsemen.

Later, when I received the e-mails of Pastor David stirring up his vision and warnings of the past I wondered if this was part of what I was hearing?

In the past when there were prophetic voices speaking of the coming end in 1988 and the Y2 scare I had many calls form around the country. The end time wwas an easy one but Y2 was different. When I went before the Lord He assured me it was not going to happen and as Isaih said, "Do not let their fear come upon you."

Now I am hearing that the horsemen are coming and I was not prepared for this word to come forth. So I ams seeking the Lord as to how to get ready.

I personally think it is goig to last more than thiery days. I do not know if Pastor David is right but I had rather be safe than sorry as some were who would not listen to the prophet and said peace peace when ther was no peace.

Anonymous said...

In Colorado said.....
It is interesting that in Joel Rosenberg's fictional book "Dead Heat" the exact thing Dave Wilkerson is predicting comes to fruition as stated in the following book review:

In the latest Jon Bennett and Erin McCoy thriller—billed as the finale of the series—terrorists attack the U.S., vaporizing a large chunk of Washington, D.C.; destroying CIA headquarters; and turning Times Square into rubble. The president is presumed dead, and the shaken vice president is trying to restore order. ....

What is even more interesting is that many of the events that Mr. Rosenberg wrote about in this fictional series have actually come to pass after the books were written.

Pray for our country.

Anonymous said...

All very interesting comments. I have the utmost confidence in God's Word over anyone else's extra-biblical "vision" or "prophecy." In a way I'm glad America is not named in the Bible because we worry too much. Jesus says "Let not your heart be troubled...BELIEVE in me." Israel is sometimes said to be the 51st state and each administration always sends envoys to Israel "seeking peace." Our destiny is married to Israel from the beginning. Reference the book by Michael D. Evans "The American prophecies: Ancient Scriptures reveal our nation's future." The "In God we trust" is the God of Israel. Take heart, and take courage as a God fearing American that the foundations are sure! Current judges and administrations may seek to change it, but their rule is short, chaotic and limited. The history is real. A recent PBS special is entitled "Jerusalem: the Center of the World," and the middle three letters in that name are familiar. Despise not "small" things. Read the Jerusalem Post or Arab publications and you find they always link us. It's in our history our DNA. Faithful people are not under law, but under grace. Grace through Jesus Christ is greater than all sins. A lot of our problems come from mixing law and grace even in our interpretations of prophecy. Gloom and doom is often associated with a person under the law. Righteousness and peace to the person under grace. A preacher of fresh insights on grace I'm hearing lately is Joseph Prince of Singapore. He's on TV. He's saying things I've not heard anyone else saying. If you listen you may find his Bible insights also refreshing. Blessings to you! "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Faith is stronger than doubt. I hope that you too find this true. Peace and joy to you in Christ.

Anonymous said...

Shalom,,I ran accross a verse in scripture, that says if we aske the HOLY SPIRIT , HE will lead us into all truth.I also know the bible talks of all these books and self made propets. I am aware of Acts 2:17, Mark 13:8 and Duet 18:22, but starting in Gen 12 , G-d is not begging or commanding us to bless Israel an the Jews. He made a statement and said I will bless those who bless her and curse those who don't, and said even the silent ones who don't do either. In the Romans He tells us He will never forget them, and that a everlasting covent is everlasting. Isaiah tells us of how HE is coming with redemption for all Israel will be saved.Mercy and Grace has always been. When He warned Noah, it says IN FEAR Noah prepared. Everything we need to know, learn and act on is in HIS WORD. He tells us what was , will be, and there is nothing new under the sun. I think we will hear prophecy from this and that and we know visions, dreams etc will come to some. I think we should remember when we hear it wether true or not, a REMINDER that G-d warned of all that is to come and the way to escapte what is coming onto the earth, and how we thru His blood will be worthy to escape the the things coming onto the earth. G-d tells us the preachers will get double punishment for leading the flock astray. G-d is NOT a Covenant breaker. Yet the church has taken so many promises that were for Isarael alone and thrown back all the ones they don't like. Once the church, real believers are gone, HIS EYES will return to Jerusalem, and when He stands on the Mt of OLive which will always belong to Israel, Jews,,He will bring up the dead, pore pure water on them and take away their sins and every knee will bow and tounge will confess HE IS L-rd and then it says ALL Israel will be saved. He is not bringing them home to destroy them..His word is true and HE warned us that if HE would punish them, how much more us who knew. We owe the Jews a great debt we cannot repay,,One would have to be a literal believer to see that Israel and the Jews is G-d's wife, we are the bride..Not one of us can ever replace Israel ..The best advise is, go read the bible for yourself..so many wolves are in the church leading them to Rome. Not everyone who says L-rd, L-rd will enter in, In scripture HE tells us His love for His chosen is forever..hello folks ,,read HIS word,,Dr. Reagan is one of the best ever to teach truth..Kim

Anonymous said...

I always enjoy reading about endtime events seeing as we are at least approching that time very quickly.There are many things about to happen,however we are blinded to exactly when and what will be next.As we get closer to that time they will become clearer to discern.I do not doubt the vision that he saw I just am not sure that the interpretation of it is correct.I would like to see the fire of God fall on us all as in a great revival.We do know God will Judge and my advice is to watch and pray so we may escape the wrath to come.

Anonymous said...

Lots of interesting posts over the last month. I, too, have started buying extra food. Rather than hold on to all of your stock until the use-by dates expire, eat it now as needed and replace what you use. Also, leave a you've-been-left-behind/explanation-of-salvation note in your pantry. Maybe the Lord is laying this on our hearts to bless others when we're gone.

Maranatha.

LiveHoly said...

Warning:
Some of God's people will receive the plagues of God. We better get right with God.

Revelation 18:4 (KJV)
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not

partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

bigr said...

I think it's highly unfair to call soomeone a false prophet without specifically citing a fals prophecy. On the contrary, Wilkerson's predictions made in his '70's book, "Racing Towards Judgment" more than a dozen predictions have come to pass with amazing clarity. I hope that any other Christian who gets these warnings speaks them forth. Imagine if Wilkerson thought he got this warning from the Lord and didn't say anything! But, if you don't believe him, don't prepare. It's on you.

Anonymous said...

Isn't the internet useful for preserving things like this? A year later and no calamity. Well, Rev Wilkerson, I don't know what you meant by "about to happen", but somehow I think you got it wrong...

power prayer said...

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wyojimmy said...

People like David Wilkerson are why I am grateful I can read the Bible. The Bible is a beautiful book with great and precious promises and warns about false prophets and evangelists who will appear to do wonderful things. Moral of the story: Read Jesus' words.

These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world