Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Will The Antichrist Be A Jew?

Dr. David R. ReaganPDFBy Dr. David R. Reagan

Will the Antichrist be a Jew or a Gentile?

Most Christian are aware of the fact that there is a lot of disagreement about the interpretation of Bible prophecy between those who have completely different viewpoints, like the arguments between those who are Premillennial and Amillennial. But, what many people are not aware of is that there are some strong points of disagreement between those that take a literal viewpoint of end-time prophecies.

Recently, I attended a major Bible Prophecy conference in the Dallas area where I had the opportunity to interview a number of Bible prophecy experts. Out of 11 Bible prophecy experts I interviewed, only 3 said they felt like the Antichrist would be a Jew or that he could possibly be one. We'll start with one yes/no answer, one could be, and one maybe. The next seven people responded with a negative reply. The final expert I interviewed answer may surprise you. Finally, I'll conclude with my response.


Phillip Goodman

I do. I believe that he could, but I don't think the Bible tells us. The evidence is not strong enough.

There is a passage in Daniel 11:37 that says he will reject the god or the gods of his fathers. The language is not strong enough in there from the original language to let us know whether it is a plural or a singular. And, that is the primary passage that most people go to say that perhaps he is a Jew. Because if it is the god of his father, it is a very similar phrase we find all over the Old Testament. It is used of the Jews. Yet, that also could be a Muslim, so the evidence is not strong enough in the Bible really to tell us what his origination is in terms of a religious origin.

So, we have to look to the geographic/geopolitical evidence in the Bible to find out where he comes from. He could be a Jew. I am not convinced of it. I think he is a Gentile, because he will be ruling over the time of the Gentiles, according to Daniel 2 and also in Revelation. There is stronger evidence that he will be a Gentile.


Don Perkins

He could be, and my reasons for that is 2 Thessalonians 2, where the Scripture tells us that when the Antichrist comes into the Temple he will literally go into the Temple as God. Which the Temple would be in Jerusalem and he would be worshipped there as God. Now for that fact I believe that the Antichrist could be a Jew. I believe that Israel could literally worship him as a Jewish Messiah. Now, I know that goes a little different against other people's views or whatever, but I do believe that could very well be the case. He could be a Jew.


Todd Strandberg

I think he probably will be a Jew or it is highly likely, because the Antichrist is going to be a replacement for Christ, so he probably will be very much a mirror of Christ. Maybe the same age he will be. He will probably have to be Jewish, because the Jews won't accept someone who is not Jewish as Messiah, so I believe it very strongly. They are going to make lots of mistakes by accepting him as their Messiah. So, they might go beyond accepting someone who is not. They should accept him. The only reason they should accept him is because he is a Jew.


Daymond Duck

No, I don't think the Antichrist will be a Jew.

First, let's deal with a couple controversial passages on this issue concerning the Antichrist in Daniel 11:37. You can go to the King James Version of the Bible and there you will read that it says, "Neither shall he regard the god of his father." You can go to the New International Version or other translations and they will read neither shall he regard the gods (plural) of his fathers. Now, those who think the word is god singular, they say the Antichrist will come out of a monotheistic religion and he will probably be a Jew. Those who think the correct translation is gods plural say he will come out of a polytheistic religion and he will be a Gentile. Now, I am not enough an expert to settle whether it should it should be "god" or "gods." That has gone on for a long time, and I don't know anyone that has ever settled it.

Another controversial passage is John 5:43 and Jesus said, "I have come in my Father's name and you have received me not. If another shall come in his own name, him will you receive." And now you get into what Jesus meant by the word "receive." Some say that means that the Jews would receive him as Messiah, and they reason that the Antichrist will be a Jew because the Jews wouldn't receive someone as their Messiah who wasn't a Jew. And then there are others who say when Jesus said "receive" that meant that the Jews will receive him as a great leader who would guarantee the seven year covenant for peace in the Middle East. So, you got those two views. Those who think the Jews will receive him as a great leader, then they will believe that he will be a Gentile.

I don't guess I could settle this issue on either one of those passages of Scripture. But, I do think we have other passages of Scripture on this issue and here now I am talking about Daniel 7:3 and Revelation 13:1 where the Antichrist is described as a beast coming up out of the sea. And, of course, we know the sea is a symbol for multitudes, nations, peoples, tongues... in other words, for Gentiles. And so, I believe that those passages teach that the Antichrist will be a Gentile.


Don McGee

I do not believe that he will be a Jew, basically, for some of the same reasons he will not be a Muslim. Antichrist is going to be a man that is going to demand or command world-wide attention. For a Jew to be in that position would be a very, very long shot. But, if you take someone who comes from the European community, specifically with the credentials that a lot of those people have, he will be in a position automatically to be accepted by the entire world. Just like the Antichrist will probably not be a Muslim because of a religious connotation, so too will the Antichrist not be a person associated with any type of religion except the one he is going to institute for himself.


Nathan Jones

I don't. If you go to Revelation 13, it talks about the Beast that comes out of the sea. And typically, throughout the Bible, anything that is related to the sea is an outside nation from Israel. It is a Gentile nation. And, if you go to Revelation 13, it talks about a second beast, and I think this is the one we are talking about in that the False Prophet very well could be a Jew because he is the beast that comes from the land, and the land is always a reference for Israel. So, no, I do not think the Antichrist will be a Jew.


Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Now again, the passages in Daniel 9:26-27 specifies that he will be of the same ethnic identity as the people who destroyed the city and the Temple. And, in AD 70, it was the Romans that did so, which is why he has to be not only a Gentile, but a Gentile specifically of Roman origin.


Al Gist

No, I don't believe that he will be a Jew. I believe that when he makes his covenant with Israel that he will be speaking to a Jewish leader, probably the man who will end up being the False Prophet, and I do not believe that he will be a Jew. Some people believe this because they think he will claim to be the Jewish Messiah. But, I don't find enough biblical support to accept that. I believe that he will be an apostate Gentile, just like the Caesars of the Roman Empire. He will claim to be God, but he will be an apostate Gentile. I don't think he will be a Jew.


Mark Hitchcock

I think the biblical evidence is that the Antichrist will be a Gentile. He is going, according to Daniel, to lead the final great Gentile world empire, which seems inconsistent for a Jew to be the leader of the final great Gentile world empire. All the other empires in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, the leaders of those were all Gentiles. Also, he is going to mercilessly persecute the Jewish people, which seems strange to me for a Jewish person to be persecuting his own people. Also, in Daniel 8, the only clear type of Antichrist in the Bible is Antiochus Epiphanes who was a Gentile, Syrian. And, also in the book of Revelation 13, this beast, this Antichrist figure rises out of the sea. In Revelation 17:15, it tells us the sea is representative of the nations. So, for those reasons, to me it seems clear that the Antichrist is going to be a Gentile.


Ed Hindson

No, absolutely not! I don't think the Antichrist is Jewish. I think the Antichrist, first of all, is a person who makes a treaty with the Jews. It isn't likely a Jew would make a treaty with the Jews. He is a leader of Gentile nations, if we can understand the prophecy in Daniel 9 correctly. If he is the leader of the revived Roman Empire — the leader that comes out of Europe — it is not likely that he is Jewish. He is, first of all an unbeliever, so it doesn't matter what his nationality is. He is not a believer. He does not regard the gods of his fathers or the gods of any faith system at all. He is what we call an atheist and an unbeliever who really ultimately thinks he is God. And, he will go to the Temple in Israel claiming to be God and demand the world worship him as God. So, in a sense, he is theocentric in the wrong sense in that he thinks he is God and everybody should worship him.


Ray Gano

I actually believe that the Antichrist will be of Hebrew descendent — Hebrew blood — but also practice the Muslim religion, and I use Daniel 11:37 to illustrate this. It talks in there that he shall not regard the god of his fathers in this phrase"god of his fathers," which is always associated to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In fact, this statement "god of his fathers" is only used five times in Scripture. In every time it is associated to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So I look at that.

Another thing that I look at is that we learn in Genesis 49:17 the tribe of Dan (these are last day prophecies that Jacob gave to his sons) and it says in Genesis 49:17, "That a serpent shall cause the rider to fall backwards." So, there is possibility that he actually may come out of the tribe of Dan. I also use Revelation 7:1-8 to back this up because this, the chapter where it talks about the 144,000 Dan is not named in the 144,000. So, there is speculation here or there is Scriptural evidence here I believe that shows that he will have Hebrew ancestry.

Yet, on the other side, he will also practice the Muslim religion, because we go to Daniel 11:38 and it says, "He shall honor the god of forces; and the god whom his fathers knew not." And so, he will not regard the god of his fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He will honor the god of forces, or a god of war which I believe is Allah, and it is a god that his fathers knew not. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not know about Allah, did not have any conception of Allah.

Another verse that people point to often is showing that he comes from the people of the prince. The verse they use is Daniel 9:26. And, in this, people often say that he comes from Rome. I believe that he comes from the Roman Empire, but I don't believe that he is Italian in descent, which a lot of people are pointing to. There's the Roman Empire. The eastern leg of the Roman Empire comes out of Constantinople, and Constantinople ruled for a 1,000 years after Rome ceded. And, the reason they point to this is the Tenth Legion of Rome that Titus invaded Israel and Jerusalem and overthrew that area in 70 AD. Titus was the only person who was pretty much of Roman descent, but he was an individual, not people plural. There was another individual. His associate's name was Tiberius Julius Alexander and he was actually the general that did all the work. Titus took the glory, Tiberius Julius did the work. Now the interesting thing is Tiberius Julius was actually an Egyptian Jew born in Alexandria. So, again, both of these people are individuals. It's the people of the prince. Well, history tells us the Tenth Legion was basically hired mercenaries, people from the area. That is what Rome always did. Any of the legions that Rome created they usually pulled from the local people right there. So the Tenth legion, who comprised of the Tenth Legion? They were Middle Eastern Arabs, Syrian, Moabites, Edomites — basically the enemies of Israel. Garrisons of the Tenth Legion were stationed in Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, so forth, at no time were they ever stationed in Rome. It was only when Titus came back in victory when he entered Rome, and so it was the people of the prince, and I am saying that it is the people who invaded Israel and that was the Tenth Legion were the soldiers and not the individuals.

One more point is if he is of Roman or European descent — Italian descent — I question his names in Scripture. He is clearly called "the Assyrian." He is called the "Prince of Tyre." He is called "King of Babylon." He is called the "King Pharaoh of Egypt." These are all Middle Eastern titles, Middle Eastern names, and Middle Eastern places. If he was from either like Italy or Europe or something, why isn't he called the King of Italy, or the Duke of Germany, or the Prince of Rome, or something like that? I tend to read Scripture literally and maintain a basics in literalness and the golden rule of interpretation. I don't just dig into it more. And so, with these names I point to a Middle Eastern side.


Dr. David Reagan

That unique answer by Ray Gano to the question "Will the Antichrist be a Jew?" gives us a final total of 7 no's, 1 yes, 1 could be, 1 maybe, and 1 yes/no.

Now, until fairly recently, I would say that the majority viewpoint among those who interpret Bible prophecy literally was that the Antichrist will be a Jew. That was primarily due to a statement of Jesus that is recorded in John 5:43, where Jesus is quoted as saying, "I have come in my Father's name and you do not receive me, if another shall come in his own name you will receive him." Now the argument drawn from this statement was that the Antichrist would have to be a Jew in order for the Jews to accept him as their Messiah. It's a very logical argument, but it ignores the fact that other passages in the Bible make it very clear that the Jews will never accept the Antichrist as their Messiah. In fact, we are specifically told that when the Antichrist reveals himself in the middle of the Tribulation and claims to be God the Jews will be horrified and will totally reject him, causing him to turn on them in fury and launch an attempt to annihilate them.

So, what did Jesus mean when he said, "That if another shall come in his own name the Jews will receive him?" Well, those who argue that the Antichrist will be a Gentile responded by saying that the Antichrist will be accepted by the Jewish people as their political savior when he implements a treaty at the beginning of the Tribulation that will guarantee their security and enable them to rebuild their Temple. But, the Jews will never receive the Antichrist as their spiritual Savior, thus when he declares himself as God, they will reject him.

My conclusion is there is no Biblical reason that the Antichrist must be a Jew. And, there is some very strong Biblical evidence that he will be a Gentile. For example, Revelation 13:1 pictures him as a beast arising out of the sea. This is, of course, symbolic language, but it is significant because in the Bible and in Bible prophecy the sea is used to symbolize Gentile nations. For example, in Daniel 7 where there is a prophecy about four great Gentile empires, it refers to them as coming up from the sea. In contrast, the Antichrist's right-hand man and spiritual leader is pictured in Revelation 13:11 as rising up out of the land, or the earth in some translations. This reference to the land is an indication that the False Prophet will be a Jew who will rise out of the promise land of Israel.

Now, there is a logical reason we can assume that the Antichrist will be a Gentile, and it is one that Mark Hitchcock mentioned in his answer. And that is the fact that the book of Daniel reveals that the Antichrist is going to be the leader of the last great Gentile empire. It is simply not logical to assume that such an empire would be headed up by a Jew. Also, it is not logical to assume that a Jew would attempt to annihilate the Jewish people as the Antichrist will try to do. Finally, the clearest type of the Antichrist in the Scriptures is Antiochus Epiphanes who was a Greek tyrant.

27 comments:

Charlotte Mathis said...

This is a very interesting comparison of views by Bible believing teachers. How refreshing to be able to compare views in such an instructive, not argumentative way. This is the way we learn. I am presently reading "Isralestine" and considering some Bible passages I had not previously considered. As the time grows nearer, some of us may begin to understand more clearly the prophesies we have heard for so many years.

Billy said...

Sometimes one of the best excercises I use in order to think things through is by argument. Argument doesn't have to have a negative connotation. As long as argument doesn't involve anger or hate it can be a great way to draw out thought.

Will the anti-Christ be a Jew? Frankly I have to say my answer is I don't care. If I had to speculate I'd say no he won't. But for Christians of the present it doesn't matter since we'll be long gone, much to the joy of that evil one.

SeanOsborne said...

With respect to Ray Gano's response which touched upon Daniel 11:37-38.

1.) The A/C could be a direct descendant of Jewish blood but who is not and never was a practicioner of the Jewish faith. That would account for the lack of regard for the "god of his fathers" prophetic statement.

2. The whole context of these verses also makes clear he will not regard any god but declare himself to be a god. This eliminates the islamic "allah" from consideration.

Neither is the "god of fortresses" to be interpreted as "allah." Itis the god of his forebears, and the god of this age. The false god of wealth.

To expound upon this, I believe the sum of these verses make it clear that this "god" is the god (elowahh: false god) of our world, the "god" whom most of humanity worships more than anything: the gold, silver, precious stones and other worldly valuables (stocks, bonds, certificates). The word "Fortresses" (H4581 = ma-owz: place of safety, harbor, stronghold) equates to my mind where the U.S. and other nations store such worldly treasures: Fort Knox and in very secure "fortesses" (i.e. secure banks, vaults and safes) - the world over.

SeanOsborne said...

Also, citing Antichus IV Epiphanes is a critical key and I agree completely. His origin is genetically linked to the West - to Greece/Macedonia, and Rome as the inheritor of all the previous kingdoms that came before it as identified in Daniel and Revelation (Babylon, Persia, Greece).

hartdawg said...

i personally think "yes and no" the Bible is very cleae he comes from "the sea" (gentile nations) therefore he will be a gentile, BUT i think he may have jewish blood. as for the question of why would a jew persecute his own people, hitler was partly jewish. at least i read that somewhere. i think he will be a gentile who rises outa the E.U. not a muslem, but will have jewish blood. the false prophet will be a jew.

Paul said...

I think the Antichrist or Beast is of the Roman Empire and also the False Prophet-leader of the world religion and for a while partner of the Beast is also of the Roman Empire. Constantine's false religion now residing on the seven hills where the Vatican is built.
Rev 17:9
The Muslims will never embrace any god but their Moon god and certainly will never embrace a prophet residing in the Vatican.

son of thunder said...

I thought at one time that AC was Muslim, but after I started thinking it through it made less and less sense. I have never thought AC was Jewish based on the "beast out of the sea" description of him, knowing that the sea is symbolically the Gentile nations.

He is definately a Gentile affiliated in some way with Europe.

Of course, it doesn't really matter to blood-bought Christians since he can't be revealed until after the removal of the church.

Bible Prophecy on the Web said...

The king/little horn/false prophet will not honor the God of his fathers (Dan.11:36-38 below).


Dan.11:36 And the king (Dan.7:8, Dan.7:24) shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF above every god (Dan.8:11, 2 Thess.2:4), and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and SHALL PROSPER TILL THE INDIGNATION BE ACCOMPLISHED: for that that is determined SHALL BE DONE (Dan.7:21, Dan.7:25).

Dan.11:37 Neither shall he (the king) regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: FOR HE SHALL MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE ALL (Dan.11:36 above).

Dan.11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces (Dan.11:31): and a god whom his fathers knew not (Dan.11:37 above) shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things (Re.17:4).


Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy

Anonymous said...

All - This is an interesting topic. I just thought that maybe we should think if this from a 'Post Pre-Trib Rapture' perspective. In many of the arguments above, I see people providing great responses, but all are pre-rapture perspectives, thus we tend to assess how individuals would make decisions on whom to put their belief in based on a normal day in the life/peaceful point of view. However, what if things got crazy chaotic and people were searching for someone to believe in, would their opinions change? If the rapture were to occur tomorrow and the restrainer (HS) were to be taken away.... then what??? 2 Thes 2, gives a pretty good perspective of how people would be sent a strong delusion that they would believe the lie... Thus is it possible that most people who are left behind will believe in anyone who seems to have the answers regardless of ethnicity??? Just food for thought... See the scripture below...


2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


In Christ - David, Virginia USA

Anonymous said...

David, interesting point. I have been thinking along those lines you mention for a while. How will the world fall under the spell of such a delusion & lie that will be the Anti-Christ? I know the Bible says it and that seals it for me as being absolutely true, but still I wonder in practical terms how it will come to be. If he is such evil personified that he makes Hitler, Lenin, Pol-Pot look like Boy Scouts, if he is directly responsible for the deaths of over 1/2 of the worlds population (post-rapture population that is) etc. etc then I wonder how he will garner sufficient popularity and power to "rule" the world. To me that is one powerful delusion perpetuated on a world that thinks it is so advanced and believes itself to be so scientifically, technologically, and socially superior.

My own personal thoughts are that the A/C will use the pride we have in ourselves and technology to promulgate the lie. Think about it - much of the world is tied into cell phones, PC's and the web. We have websites devoted to supposedly verifying the facts we read in e-mails and in other sites, but who is fact checking the self-styled fact checkers? And, it is getting easier to use the technology in tv, sports, movies, documentaries etc. to alter reality and we are at the point where we can't see the illusion. Socially we are also as a nation and a world running so fast from Christ that it makes my head spin and my heart hurt for the lost who are rebelling against their Creator. I believe your statement is correct concerning what will people do in the chaos & fear created by what I am assuming is the Rapture of the Church. The Anti-Christ will use smooth & reassuring words, sharp dressing good looks, media savvy ways, and technology to woo the masses. But more importantly it will be the worlds rejection of Christ that ultimately allows them to believe the lie.

Rob from Alabama

SeanOsborne said...

Rob from Alabama,

Regarding you questions above:

"How will the world fall under the spell of such a delusion & lie that will be the Anti-Christ? I know the Bible says it and that seals it for me as being absolutely true, but still I wonder in practical terms how it will come to be."

A response to a similar line of query I posted to Don Koenigs's PropheticYears.com blog might be of some assistance to you.

Here goes:

"I’m looking simultaneously at Revelation 9, 11:6, 13 and 17, and at all of Daniel’s descriptions of the man who will be antichrist. It appears to me that the man, right from the get-go, is possessed by a demon which comes up out of the abyss, from the bottomless pit, also knoiwn as sheol. (Rev. 17:8). This is the world of the dead. Antiochus IV Epiphanes is dead. (See Luke 8:26-31).

I asked a question at this point in my study: Where is it stated in Scripture that prior to or during the Tribulation has Satan himself been cast into the abyss? Where does Scripture say that he has existed for the past 2000 years since he tempted Christ? So how can the Beast, if he is satan incarnate come up out of the abyss? Satan is not bound and thown into the abyss by one of God;s angels until Revelation 20

It appears to me that antichrist will be possessed by another demon spirit from the abyss, from sheol, and then at mid-Tribulation his body dies a mortal death and he is re-animated - resurrected - and indwelt by Satan himself for the final 3.5 years of the great tribulation.

He once was, is not, and yet will come again. Revelation 17:11 “The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.” I think this verse speaks to a beast, who was a human king and becomes a human king again, and then goes to final destruction."

Hope this helps.

Anonymous said...

Rob - In response to this part of your post...

If he is such evil personified that he makes Hitler, Lenin, Pol-Pot look like Boy Scouts, if he is directly responsible for the deaths of over 1/2 of the worlds population (post-rapture population that is) etc. etc then I wonder how he will garner sufficient popularity and power to "rule" the world.When the restraining force of the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way (rapture) the way will be clear for an especially evil person to come on the scene. Israel will accept this person as their long awaited Messiah and will enter into an agreement with hell and death (Isaiah 28:14-15). But Israel will not be alone in her deception. The entire world will become infatuated with this man and will follow after him. At the mid-trib he turns on the people and anyone else who opposes him, demanding worship etc...

Heres the scenario:

"The rapture has occured and chaos runs rampant, a leader is needed" The first 3.5 years of the tribulation are rather peaceful for this leader, it is during this time that his charisma/charm woos the world and he wins their hearts through all kinds of signs and lying wonders. This is when the delusions begin. As Sean mentions, its during the mid-trib that he is mortally wounded and subsequently indwelt by Satan and returned to life in full public view, this delusion coming in the form of a miracle further wins the people over to him. Once indwelt, I believe it is his ego/pride that leads him to step into the temple and proclaim himself as God. At this point I truly believe their will be millions who will turn from him, but is it too late??? The killing of over 1/2 the worlds population does not occur until God's judgements begin to be poured out on society (last 3.5 years)...

In Christ - David, Virginia USA

Anonymous said...

To answer the original question:

Will The Antichrist Be A Jew?All of the responses in Dr Reagan's blog are good answers. I tend to agree (and don't mind being wrong) that he comes from outside Israel (Revised Roman Empire), but will have some Jewish lineage.

As many have stated, today's Christians will have been raptured before this peace treaty with the evil one is signed. So we will be watching these events unfold from above. I know there are those who contend that the "Peace Treaty" with Israel will be signed before the rapture occurs, however I tend to think the signing of this treaty is a sort of "Kick-off Meeting" or day 1 of the 7-Year tribulation period occuring after the rapture. It is the signer of this Treaty that is identified as the antichrist.

Everyone should put this into perspective...

HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO THE RAPTURE?

Quite simply, we all know a false peace treaty will be signed with Israel, this signing is very close... President Obama is all but forcing peace onto Israel and its enemies... Thus its that close...

HOW CAN WE BE SURE THE RAPTURE IS THAT CLOSE?

Because the rapture occurs BEFORE the signing of this treaty... Any light bulbs coming on out there???

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, my thoughts/feelings/opinions come from 14 years of studying prophecy, but I am NOT a scholar on the subject and expect to be corrected as needed.Look up... Our remdemption draweth nigh! Amen!

In Christ - David, Virginia USA

Anonymous said...

I want to put forth one final comment regarding the antichrist.

I do not see President Obama as being the antichrist, however, I do see him as being a sort of fore-runner to the antichrist arriving on the scene, a sort of stage setter... It seems to me that the pressure is mounting and is so great on Israel's leadership to enter into a peace treaty with its enemies, that there is only one missing ingredient... Chaos.

The rapture is just such an event that will bring on this Chaos. When the rapture occurs unimaginable horrors will strike the world, a leader will almost immediately arise with such a dramatic impact that the world will believe the lie ( a lie such as this... "We must all come to Peace with each other in order to stop the spread of chaos, and to achieve a global comimg together so that we may bring order back to our planet"... This will be the type of comment that pushes world leaders to shake hands and sign treaties.

Another thought is that this chaos could be compounded by other events such as nuclear exchanges in the middle east.

This is just my opinion, but ladies and gentlemen when our Christian Scholars/Leaders tell us the end of our age is near... We need to shut-up and listen!

In Christ - David, Virginia USA

Anonymous said...

David & Sean - I agree with you in terms of who the Anti-Christ is and what he is. However, what I was wondering out loud and what I have thought about is the practicality of how it would all go down, more of a hmmmmmm moment for me, an academic exercise.

Even though the world is drawing closer together with travel & communications I see that we still think (more or less) as independent nation-states and regions who like to make our own decisions. There is even lack of consensus in the E.U. over their so-called oneness. So....I was just thinking; how in the chaos and confusion of a post-Rapture world can any one individual or small group of individuals calm the world down, how do they present their plan and then how does the world - in it's independent mind-set - comes to accept it. For me it's hard to see even today how a long sought after peace-treaty for Israel could unite the world so dramatically. It would be great for sure, but would it really be enough to cause the whole world to annoit a worldwide king? I admit that I can see how the disappearance of millions of believers would cause people to rally behind a leader, but it is a hard concept to think how EVERYONE will rally - this is something not heard of in history despite devestating plaques, famines, wars.

I also wonder because to me when you read Scripture you see more often than not that God uses mankind and the agencies of free will and action to accomplish His purposes, you just don't see Him coming down in "person" to handle things (and yes I realize noone has seen God and none will until we are made perfect in Heaven). I just think there are times when we in the church tend to "over spiritualize" things and we tend to look for "major" miracles, signs and wonders to see God. In so doing we miss how God is really working and trying to get our attention - He uses real people, governments, armies, kingdoms, and even terrorist acts. So, again as an academic exercise I was wondering in "real world" terms how the A/C will accomplish his unification and control. And I was simply postulating and wondering if anyone else sees that our tremendous pride and technology could be how the world is fooled into the lie. And I agree with you guys that the basic underlying reason for the deception is man's rejection of God's Son and their attempt to be god and lord of their own lives.

Maybe I'm crazy but that's a whata I wuz thunkin,
Rob from Alabama

Nathan Jones said...

Rob, the Antichrist will have quite a historic opportunity to take over. Firstly, the U.S. will lose its power due to the Rapture and other circumstances. Secondly, the Muslim world and Russia will be in shambles due to God's victory in the Gog-Magog Battle. Thirdly, the Antichrist will form a peace treaty from his EU base with the greatly enlarged Israel.

The Bible tells us that the Antichrist spends a lot of his time in war subduing the world, and in the end putting down a rebellion from the only remaining far eastern powers.

The great catastrophies from the Tribulation judgments will unite the world behind the Antichrist's leadership. (We saw a glimpse of that when the world markets began to collapse.)

Antichrist may rule the world, but it will be short, not universally welcomed, and very problematic.

Anonymous said...

Nathan, thanks. I understand, in part as I am not an eschatology expert, the overarching concepts and information of the Anti-Christ and end times. I am not in any way disagreeing with youse guys theology because I am in agreement with what most say here in theological terms. I am simply wondering from a human perspective what it will look like and HOW the foretold events come to pass in reality. And I understand that some, or all ???, of the Anti-Christs rule will be based on war and subjugation. But as you indicated the Bible does say the world will think it has found peace? So does he gain control based on the fear and force or based on the peacefull fuzzy feelings the world gets from some policy decisions? Which comes first the chicken or the egg? I ask because, again, I am trying to get my wittle bwain around how the entire world will literally give the A/C the keys to the world. From what I have read there are many non-Christians who have a disdain for a one-world-government, so to say because Christians are taken away that it is smooth sailing for the Anti-Christ to take over is false, IMO.

But then again, I ain't a never seen a rapture before so there is no way to judge how much abject fear an event like that will cause (and that may be the only answer to my earlier thoughts). I know the Anti-Christ will rule for a short, problematic while because God has revealed it to us in the Bible. But I am simply curious how it goes down in the real world, again an academic exercise of the mind that in the end means nothing as God has it in His hands.

I think I might be like the dog chasing his tail with this, no end in sight with the questions already.
woof............Rob from Alabama

Paul said...

First I would like to repent of my comment "Constantines false religion"
I know born again believers who were saved while they were still Catholics. Most no longer are. I know Catholics who genuinely love Jesus but their belief is corrupted by pagan beliefs.

I have had this thought. I think that Nathan-Salas are probably correct that Israel will fight a war against the Muslim Nations surrounding them, but Israel will not be unscathed. The Russian-Persian invasion happens when they think they are at peace. I just wonder if they may think they are at peace because of their treaty with Antichrist? It seems like Israel is strangely at peace while Antichrist goes about conquering the rest of the world. Until he turns on them at the midpoint of the tribulation.

hartdawg said...

i agree with the one who said obama is NOT the anti-christ but is a shadow of him and is paving the way.

Anonymous said...

Rob, I have to concur with this statement in particular (I'm in agreement with much of what's said here), but this struck me as very important: "the basic underlying reason for the deception is man's rejection of God's Son and their attempt to be god and lord of their own lives."

I think it's this problem that causes all kinds of woe--now, in the Tribulation, AND in the Millinnium.

I also think it's what keeps Christians from reaching maturity. One Christian I know says we're all trying to be "lord of our own rings." This is the independent, rebellious attitude that has stretched all the way from Adam and Eve in the garden to (I think) the end of life on this earth.

And I think it will play a key part in WHY people will trust a man rather than God.

As for HOW it will come down, I've looked into the alien/demon invasion scenario, and as wild as it is, it seems plausible to me that it could bring about the whole world's "conversion" to belief in the antichrist.

I'm sure there are many other possible scenarios, and it is interesting to think about them--although heart-wrenching, too.

Just my two-cents' worth!

Laura

son of thunder said...

Laura, I've looked into the alien deal myself, and Chuck Missler is the expert on this one.

The New Age is deep into the UFO thing (note: only New Agers and other non-Christians are visited by UFO's). UFO's do not come from outer space, but from another dimension. They are physical manifestations of spiritual beings.

Where this theory comes from is the phrase "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2. B'nei a'Elohim in Hebrew, which is used in the case of beings whom Yahweh directly created; i.e. Adam and angels.

These beings went on to make children with human women. These children were called the Nephilim, or the earth-born, and they were mighty leaders in the earth, and is one reason why Yahweh flooded the earth; Noah's bloodline was pure: it had to be pure for Messiah later on.

The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood, but it happened again later on (Genesis 6:4)!

The theory is that, with all the UFO sightings and abductions recently, this is happening yet again in our time.

Personally, I think there is something to it and think it's entirely plausible.

SeanOsborne said...

I've also looked into this phenomenon for quite some time now. I have found that the most expansive work done on this subject is Patrick Heron's "The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse."

son of thunder said...

I've found "Lights in the Sky & Little Green Men" by Ross, Samples, and Clark to be informative as well (except for all that "Old Earth" nonsense).

Anonymous said...

Son of Thunder and Sean,

I haven't read the books you recommend, but I have listened to some interviews. Not too long ago, Bill Salus interviewed L.A. Marzulli on his show and I also listened to a series of 5 or so interviews by Tom Horn. I don't think either of these men believe in a pre-trib rapture; however, neither do they seem to insist that one agree with their view of the rapture (or even of their view of what "aliens" are). As I said, the whole alien scenario definitely seems plausible to me, but I'm not too sure about some of Mr. Horn's ideas (i.e., giants that will be awakened and come out of the earth, alien-hybrid "people," etc.).

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot (which is not hard for me), I've also wondered about Big Foot and whether that "creature" has any ties to demons. I would say he's just an unstudied new creature, except that people have reported them using some form of telepathy (or clairvoyance . . . or something like that). That in and of itself makes me suspect they might be demon or demon-related.

Any ideas on my crazy theory?

Laura

son of thunder said...

I don't know about the whole hybrid-alien thing. I believe that what we call "aliens" are really demonic beings sent to lead men away from the Messiah.

As for bigfoot, I have been studying the bigfoot phenomena for years, and, personally I think that it's a North American ape that no one in the scientific community wants to document. Personally, I've heard some things out in the woods late at night that curled my hair that weren't any animal I've ever heard before.

As for the mind-meld thing some people say they have, I don't know. My thought, though, is this: that maybe, just maybe, there are some demonic beings who are pretending to be a bigfoot-type creature. Or demons are using American Indian folk-lore to influence what people are experiencing when they see this ape: making them think these animals are somehow supernatural.

pascale said...

I thought you might be interested in learning about OUR Jewish traditions which embrace the real Christ. We are the Frankist Association of America. One of our members has a new book out:

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Messiah-Throne-Origins-Christianity/dp/1906787123/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245892844&sr=8-1

These are our teachings passed on through generations. If you can't afford the book you can see the website of one of our teachers - www.stephanhuller.blogspot.com.

Shalom

Beth El Jacob Frank

Phillip Morgan said...

I disagree with people when they make reference to the sea as being associated with gentile nations. The sea in my opinion equates to politics of all the nations. Take for example the united nations...Each country has its political representative there and as all know the UN is not made up solely of Gentile nations. To conclude on my reasoning regarding the "sea", it states in Revelations when it speaks of the new earth that there will be no "sea". I believe this to mean no political system, no flags, no countries as leadership will come from directly from God.

In regard to the anti Christ I think he would have to be in complete control of every political system to exert true power and influence such that he has a God like status. I think a time will come when the UN will elect someone to speak for the nations and this will be him.