Friday, October 9, 2009

DNA Proves Intelligent Design

Nathan JonesPDFBy Nathan Jones

One of the world's leading spokesmen for Atheism, Dr. Anthony Flew of England, announced that he now believes in Intelligent Design rather than Evolution as the best explanation for the existence of the Universe. What amazing piece of evidence could move a staunch Evolutionist to conclude that there has to be an intelligent designer?

Dr. Jobe MartinTo discover just what this tremendous evidence is that would turn even the biggest skeptic's mind around, we went to Dr. Jobe Martin, former dentist, professor and Evolutionist. Having clearly seen God's eternal power and divine nature from what has been made (Rom. 1:20), Dr. Martin came to faith in Jesus Christ and a trust in the biblical account of the six days of Creation. He and his wife Jenna Dee have since formed Biblical Discipleship Ministries based in Rockwall, Texas to teach on campuses, classrooms and churches that we can trust the Bible's account of the Creation and Jesus as Savior.


Dr. Martin, what is your response to Dr. Flew's change in belief from Evolution to Intelligent Design as the best explanation of the existence of the Universe?

Well, first of all, I don't know Dr. Flew, but my response upon learning this was, "There's an honest scientist!" He has looked at the evidence — the hard experimentally verifiable evidence — and it is saying, "Look, there is design here. It doesn't matter which area of science you look at, there is design." And, so, he comes to the conclusion based on the science that there is design. He hasn't come to know Jesus as his Savior, as far as I know, and I don't even know if he believes in the God of the Bible, but he at least now does believe there is some kind of designer that has produced the design.

A number of Evolutionists are now saying there has to be a designer. Maybe it was aliens who came from outer space and put life here, or whatever, but they are more and more moving towards design. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that they lose their debates when they debate a Creationist. Then here comes the Intelligent Design movement, the Discovery Institute, and some of these people going on the campuses, and they don't talk about God at all. They just talk about their area of science and show there is design.


As scientists learn more and more about the DNA coding that makes us who we are, is that what is changing the Evolution vs. Creation debate?

A couple of things are going on. First of all, DNA is language. It's the language of the cell. Well, what is language? It is words. It is symbols. Where do they come from? They come from intelligence because there is information.

One of the huge problems for Evolutionists right now is how does the information get into the DNA. A lot of people think you can grab some information and stick it into a gene and maybe take some information out of a gene, and now you have this. No, it is non-material. You can't get a hold of information. There is no way. You can't take some information and stick it into a gene and you can't take information out of a gene, which means, the information supernaturally had to be put in for each life form when it was created.

Because of DNA, the support for Evolution has been breaking down.

I usually say while on campuses, "DNA is language and language requires intelligence." Nobody disagrees. DNA is language and nobody disagrees it is the language of the cell. Then I add, "Therefore, DNA has an intelligent cause." The room usually goes silent.

DNA tells your fingernails to go on top. If they came up under your fingers would slip off of everything. DNA tells your nose to go on with the holes down. If the holes are up and you are in the shower you have a problem. So, yes, DNA is the language of the cell.

A lot of evolution is based on the idea that mutation changes one creature into another creature. Since DNA is information, mutation would require that new information would have to be added to create a new creature, but that just doesn't happen. There is no way to put new information into any gene. This means bacteria have information in their genes for bacteria. A bacteria will never become people over millions of years because someone would have to add information to that bacteria gene set to create people. People have totally different information in their genes. There is just no way to randomly add information. That fact alone wipes out this whole idea of Evolution over millions of years.

Now, some say human DNA is similar to ape DNA, so there must be some relationship between the two. Well, what do we have? We have a common Designer, a common God. We've got a common food chain. We live in a common atmosphere. God put together something in the genetic makeup of animals that works for survival in a common environment. But, like a professor over at SMU said, there is only one amino acid difference between a chimpanzee and a man. Well, I just reply, "Okay, next time you need a blood transfusion, we'll just bring in a chimpanzee and you'll be fine." No, they're not going to do that, it will kill him. There are huge differences.

Even in what Darwin said was a simple one-celled organism, the DNA we know today is very complex. Darwin didn't have a clue as to what was going on inside the cell. Now we know. In my lifetime we found all these things going on inside a cell. Did you know a single cell can process a million reactions per second? There are 3,000 to 6,000 little chemical factories making exactly the right chemicals in exactly the right concentrations and the right relationships going on in our cells right this very second — and we don't blow up!


Resources

The Evolution of a CreationistThe Evolution of a Creationist Book by Dr. Jobe Martin:
This fascinating book describes Dr. Jobe Martin's personal journey from an evolution-trained scientist to a Bible-believing creationist. Dr. Martin examines many of the claims and theories of prominent evolutionists, comparing their often incredible, inconsistent, pseudo-scientific explanations of origins to the clear and simple description of the Creation as depicted in the Bible.

Creation ProclaimsCreation Proclaims Video by Dr. Jobe Martin:
Come face-to-face with some of the world's most fascinating creatures! You'll discover how Creation proclaims the character, majesty, power and, glory of our Creator God. In each creature feature, you'll learn how God is reaching out to mankind by making Himself known in unmistakable ways.

God of WondersGod of Wonders Video by Eternal Productions:
A feature-length Discovery-quality documentary without the evolutionary bias. Stunning nature footage, scientific insights and Scriptures combine to reveal the wonders of our Creator as observed throughout His creation.

90 comments:

Billy said...

Maybe I don't understand the definition of "intelligent design" but I HATE that phrase!

Having said that, I just looked up...

Wikipedia:

"It is a modern form of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, but one which avoids specifying the nature or identity of the designer."

dictionary.com:

"The assertion or belief that physical and biological systems observed in the universe result from purposeful design by an intelligent being rather than from chance or undirected natural processes."

Webster's:

"Advocates of ID believe there is empirical evidence that an Intelligent Designer has been at work in the history of life, and that macroevolution of life, and particularly the evolution of humans, has been guided by that Designer. Members of the "intelligent design movement" are typically Christians (primarily Evangelicals, plus one prominent Unificationist), but ID itself does not specify the identity of the Designer."

Note the following in these definitions:

"avoids specifying the nature or identity of the designer"

"design by an intelligent being"

"the evolution of humans"

"but ID itself does not specify the identity of the Designer"

Intelligent Design IS NOT a phrase that should be used by Creationist Christians.

Intelligent Design allows for the existance of EVOLUTION and DOES NOT identifity the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the creator.

Therefore, I have to say the title of the article (DNA Proves Intelligent Desgin) is offensive to me because of the phrase "Intelligent Design".

Christians, please DO NOT use that phrase!

Nathan Jones said...

Would "DNA Proves An Intelligent Designer" be better, Billy? That's what I meant.

hartdawg said...

a couple a things i wonder about 1)i wonder what all the public school teachers from k-college who say evolution is a proven fact with irrefutable evidence and creation has NO Proof (alot of these teachers teach it)will do when all this comes to light? 2)do you (whoever reads this) think there will be athiests during the tribulation? it seems to me no cuz people are crying out to be hidden from the wrath and later they are cursing God.

hartdawg said...

another thought (i`m full of them) i`ll bet if you asked regular people off the street, not professers or politicans, but normal people most of them prolly believe in at least a god if not the God.

Billy said...

Nathan,

That's does sound better and I knew what you meant. My comment about the title wasn't really my focal point (though I made it one of them).

I guess I was really just harping on the phrase itself and got carried away. (I'm prone to do that sometimes, sorry).

bobxxxx said...

"One of the world's leading spokesmen for Atheism, Dr. Anthony Flew of England"

Atheism doesn't need spokesmen, and just for the record, Flew is a senile old man, so his opinions are worthless.

bobxxxx said...

From a previous comment: Intelligent Design allows for the existance of EVOLUTION and DOES NOT identifity the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the creator. Therefore, I have to say the title of the article (DNA Proves Intelligent Design) is offensive to me because of the phrase "Intelligent Design".

The title of the article is offensive to me because it is false, extremely childish, and dishonest.

"Intelligent design" are fancy words that mean "supernatural magic". There is nothing that can prove magic, an idea that belongs in Harry Potter books, not discussions about science.

An intelligent design proponent is a dishonest creationist who is trying to make his childish religious beliefs look scientific, because they want to force biology teachers to teach their stupid ideas.

The people who call themselves creationists and who don't hide the fact they believe in God-Did-It, are wrong about their imaginary friend, but at least they are honest.

I very much doubt that anyone reading this is interested in learning anything, but just in case there is somebody out there who doesn't want to be willfully ignorant about the real world, I highly recommend this interesting to read and easy to understand book published in 2009:

Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.

Coyne, like virtually all biologists, is an atheist. In his book he talks only about science, and not his religious views, except to point out the creationists are wrong about everything. And he supplies tons of evidence that shows he is right. Virtually all biologists, no matter what their religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs, love evolution, because it's the only scientific explanation for the history of life, because it's a powerful and beautiful idea, and because it's undeniably true.

bobxxxx said...

"Proclaiming the soon return of Jesus Christ"

Oh boy. I just realized this is an asylum, and I have been wasting my time.

son of thunder said...

bobxxx. You are entitled to your opinion. But, what if you're wrong? If we're wrong, what are we out? Nothing. We just cease to exist because there is no hope of anything other than this mess we call life.

I find it amazing, though, that with all the evidence that points to an intelligent design, you, through faith (ooops, that's a "religious" word) believe that somehow life came from non-life.

You trace evolution back far enough, then we all came from rocks and some rain fell and lightning hit a puddle and - poof - life occured from nothing, even though life can only come from life. We can't replicate it in a lab under ideal conditions, yet somehow, purely by accident, in a less than ideal environment, it happened.

And you say we're out on a limb.

I envy you, though. You have waaaay more faith than I do. I just don't have enough faith to be an athiest.

son of thunder said...

Geochemists now report that the atmosphere of the early earth was not of the strongly reducing nature required for the Miller-Urey apparatus to give the desired results. Even under ideal and probably unrealistic conditions, the experiments failed to produce some of the necessary chemical components of life. Perhaps the most discouraging criticism came from chemists, who have spoiled the prebiotic soup by showing that organic compounds produced on the early earth would be subject to chemical reactions making them unsuitable for constructing life. In all probability, the prebiotic soup could never have existed, and without it there is no reason to believe that the production of small amounts of some amino acids by electrical charge in a reducing atmosphere had anything to do with the origin of life (Phillip E. Johnson, Darwin on Trial, Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1991, p. 103).

Although these objections to the Miller-Urey results are important, for present purposes I prefer to disregard them as a distraction from the main point. Let us grant that, one way or another, all required chemical components were present on the early earth. That still leaves us at a dead end, because there is no reason to believe that life has a tendency to emerge when the right chemicals are sloshing about in a soup. Although some components of living systems can be duplicated with very advanced technology, scientists employing the full power of their intelligence cannot manufacture living organisms from amino acids, sugars, and the like. How then was the trick done before scientific intelligence was in existence? (Phillip E. Johnson, Darwin on Trial, p. 103).

The early atmosphere had to contain some small molecules and not others.
Lightning or ultra-violet light had to be present to make them link together, but not to break them down again.

The new, larger molecules had to be washed down by rain. The molecules had to be below the clouds for this to happen, but the small ammonia molecules which dissolve very easily in water, were somehow not washed out of the sky. (This is hard to believe is it not?)

The larger molecules, though not very soluble in water, had to stay in the water as it filtered through the soil and ran over the rocks.

These molecules, though lighter than water, had to remain under the water. If they floated to the surface, they would have been destroyed by ultra-violet light.

The molecules had to collect and become concentrated in the organic soup so that they could be made to link together.

There had to be some very special catalyst molecules to make the inorganic molecules link up with water.

The right organic molecules had to be present in the right amounts to link up into proteins and DNA. Somehow, the special coded order of proteins and DNA had to happen. No convincing or even possible explanation for this has yet been given.

Organic droplets had to form and stay around long enough for something to happen inside them which would turn them into living cells. No one knows how something like this could happen.

Finally, of course, the first living cell had to find out how to divide before it died (single cell animals do not live very long lives, especially in strong solutions of ammonia which we use to kill germs today).

Here we have eleven steps, each of which had to be just right for life to survive. None of these steps separately is completely impossible, though we have no idea how one or two of them could have happened. But strung together to give an explanation of the origin of life they add up to a very unlikely story! (E. H. Andrews, From Nothing to Nature, Durham, England: Evangelical Press, 1978, pp. 41, 42).

Life does not come from non-life. This is a scientific fact. There is a big difference between a dead cell and a living one, or a dead body and a living person. If life ever were created in a test tube it would show intelligence is need to bring it about.

Nathan Jones said...

Bobxxxx, it's been awhile. What, a year? Glad you've been following along on this blog this whole time.

When Jesus does come back, remember this blog and a special video I made just for you.

Billy said...

bobxxx said "Oh boy. I just realized this is an asylum, and I have been wasting my time."

Bob, bob, bob. Talk about dishonesty. You KNEW from the minute you came to this site what it was all about. I remember you're nickname (bobxxx) because it's not the type one who regularly posts here would have. You've posted here before, though it's been a while.

You're pretending to have this revelation of who "we" are at this site then is either a deliberate fabrication, a tatical error or amnesia. Which is it?

In any case, you have now been proven to one who is at best dishonest and at worst a liar.

You should've changed your handle, pal.

son of thunder said...

I remember bobxxx now. It has been a while.

You know what I like about guys like him? The way they come in, throw some rocks, and scoot off without one shred of evidence to prove their religious beliefs.

son of thunder said...

Or how ours is wrong.

Sorry about the long post up there, fellers. I know it's unlike me, but this whole evolution thing just gets me fired up.

bobxxxx said...

scoot off without one shred of evidence

Really? What about the book I recommended? Did you seriously think I was going to spend several months listing all the evidences for evolution for you willfully ignorant people who wouldn't even thank me for it?

Read the book. It's not a sin to educate yourselves.

I get email alerts about "intelligent design" and that's what brought me here today. I don't keep track of where I have been, so I didn't know I was here before. Obviously you people learned nothing since then.

bobxxxx said...

(Phillip E. Johnson, Darwin on Trial, p. 103).

Johnson is a lawyer. He might be qualified to talk about the lawyer business, but he not qualified to write about science.

The book I recommended (Why Evolution is True) was written by a biologist who has actually made important contributions to biology, so just maybe he is more qualified to write about evolutionary biology than a god-soaked lawyer.

bobxxxx said...

bobxxx. You are entitled to your opinion. But, what if you're wrong? If we're wrong, what are we out? Nothing. We just cease to exist because there is no hope of anything other than this mess we call life.

My opinion means nothing. What matters is the evidence and evolution has tons of it. Read "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne or read "The Making of the Fittest: DNA and the Ultimate Forensic Record of Evolution" by Sean B. Carroll, or just use google and get to work.

I'm wondering, what does your childish cowardly belief in heaven have to do with evolutionary biology?

You trace evolution back far enough, then we all came from rocks ...

There's still no consensus about how the first living cells developed almost four billion years ago, but that really has nothing to do with the truth of evolution, since there has to have something to evolve from.

Those simple primitive cells did not develop from rocks. More likely explanations talk about, for example, the organic stuff found in comets, which bombarded the ancient earth every day. Other ideas suggest underwater volcanos had something to do with it. If you're interested in this subject you can use google to research it, or you could just pretend it was supernatural magic. In any case this is a separate branch of science. It is not evolutionary biology.

"this mess we call life."

Life is a mess? You might want to consider educating yourself. Our planet which is teeming with life is a much more interesting place when you understand how it really got here.

Your idea that life is a mess is strong evidence for the idea that religions harm people. They become so convinced there is a life after death that they don't do all they can to make the most of the one life they definitely have.

son of thunder said...

bobxxx said: I'm wondering, what does your childish cowardly belief in heaven have to do with evolutionary biology?

I ask you: Why do you have a childish cowardly belief in evolution? Are you afraid that if there is a God then you will one day have to face Him?

Saying life may have come from comets passing through the neiborhood is like saying space aliens did it. They only say that because they are backed up against a wall. They have no evidence so they say our ancient ancestors somehow travelled through space on a ball of ice and wound up on earth. Or were planted here by E.T.

And I say "life is a mess" because, funny thing, the world is run by evolutionists. They treat people with contempt. They murder unborn children. They starve people to death. Life is meaningless to evolutionists so they treat people like garbage. They're miserable and have no hope, so, since misery loves company, they spread the love.

That's the gospel of evolution: you're an accident. Your life is meaningless. There's no God. There's no after-life. No heaven. No hell. No hope. Go do what you want. Wanna get drunk? Do it. Wanna rape someone? Go for it.

Wow. Sounds great.

So if Christianity is a lie, then I would rather have the lie than no hope whatsoever, than have a truth that offers nothing.

son of thunder said...

Hitler was an evolutionist. Did you know that? Chucky Darwin was his hero. You know, that right there is enough to say what evolution stands for and why I want no part of it.

He murdered 10 million people in the name of evolution. Swell guy.

son of thunder said...

bobxxx said: Your idea that life is a mess is strong evidence for the idea that religions harm people.

So, how has your religion helped people?

Billy said...

bobxxx,

I actually LIKE it when you call my belief in God, Jesus, creation, etc. "childish". The faith required to believe is indeed childlike. When an adult tells a very young child something they believe it on face value without question. That describes my faith. I believe the Word of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob without question, without proof, without reason. I don't take that as an insult. So, thank you.

"And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

I hope you can find that childlike faith yourself and get saved by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ before it is too late.

Junbuggg said...

BobXXXX,
What is wrong with you??? Do you enjoy leaving your "sandbox" only to come and take a leak in ours??? Yes, we are quite happy in ours. Does that bother you?? Oh wait, I already know the answer to that....it does bother you. Why do you care what we believe in?? Oh, wait again, I know the answer to that one too. You want everyone to be as hopelessly lost as you are. You call us ignorant??? What a misserable man you must be. I'm sorry.

Billy said...

buggg...

i think you said what a lot of us were thinking.

:)

Junbuggg said...

Yeah, and I'm the girl!! Guess it has something to do with being raised with 5 brothers, and no sisters. :-)

bobxxxx said...

This place really is an asylum, but at least you strange people are not boring.

I got to get ready to go to work. I work 3rd shift. I would like to return tomorrow to reply to your comments. I might even get to it tonight before I leave but I doubt I will have the time.

So I will see you weirdos tomorrow. Thanks for interesting discussion so far.

In the meantime please click my name and enjoy the video. It's a bit too technical, but the music is wonderful.

son of thunder said...

Billy, you're right. We should wear being called children like a badge of honor.

And Junbuggg, I loved that crack about taking a leak in our sandbox. Brother's'll make you tough. Just ask my sister. :-)

Anybody notice there was no argument about evolution being a religion?

bobxxxx said...

I hope some of you watched the video I provided in my last comments. It would clear up some misconceptions you people have about how life could have got a foothold on earth billions of years ago. Making a small effort to learn something is really worthwhile. Please try it. I don't think Jeebus would mind.

Anybody notice there was no argument about evolution being a religion?

Good question. I was planning to get to that now.

This is very simple. To help you understand, take a look at this idea: "Gravity is a religion".

That's a dumb thing to say, isn't it?

Now look at this idea: "Evolutionary biology is a religion."

That idea is just as dumb as "Gravity is a religion". Both gravity and evolution are natural processes. When people talk about religious ideas, they are almost always talking about the supernatural. There's nothing supernatural about the history of life as explained by the theory of evolution.

If you can't understand what I have written so far, there is no hope of you people ever understanding anything else.

More comments soon.

bobxxxx said...

All branches of science, including evolutionary biology, are completely separate from religious ideas. Science and religion can never be mixed together. Even the most religious scientist knows he or she can't invoke supernatural ideas to explain the natural world.

What is unique about evolutionary biology is that this concept, evolution by natural selection and other natural mechanisms, has major religious implications. Of course just because a basic scientific fact like evolution has religious implications, that doesn't make it a religion.

What are the religious implications of evolution?

Many religious people who are willing to do the hard work to understand how evolution works and understand the millions of pieces of evidence for evolution, gradually realize that the natural processes of evolution, which work so well thanks to non-random natural selection, leave Mr. God with nothing to do. Then they start to wonder why should they bother worshipping a completely useless god, and they grow up and throw out their medieval superstitions and become atheists.

Other religious people, even after accepting the obvious truth of evolution, still cling to their religious crutch, for reasons completely unknown to me. You will have to ask them what their problem is.

More comments soon.

bobxxxx said...

From a previous comment: "I ask you: Why do you have a childish cowardly belief in evolution?"

Doing the hard work of understanding scientific facts is childish and cowardly? Please explain your logic. Your question seems to me to be extremely nutty.

"Belief" means believing in something that has no evidence. Using that definition, I don't have a belief in anything. I demand evidence for everything I accept, and evolution has tons of it. If you were willing to do some studying you would be able to understand this evidence yourself. Why don't you go for it, so I don't have to keep calling you people "hopelessly lazy".

For your convenience you can click my name and take a look at reader's comments on amazon.com for the book "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne.

"Are you afraid that if there is a God then you will one day have to face Him"

No.

Sorry, but you will never get anywhere trying to threaten an atheist with your invisible friend. That doesn't work.

bobxxxx said...

And I say "life is a mess" because, funny thing, the world is run by evolutionists. They treat people with contempt. They murder unborn children. They starve people to death. Life is meaningless to evolutionists so they treat people like garbage.

I never met a biologist who acted that way. I'm personally against abortion, and I have never tried to murder anyone by starvation or any other method. One of my hobbies is helping old people every chance I get. I certainly would never treat them like garbage.

I admit I have some contempt for people who are too lazy to improve themselves, but I don't really think my love for evolutionary biology has anything to do with that.

That's the gospel of evolution: you're an accident. Your life is meaningless. There's no God. There's no after-life. No heaven. No hell. No hope. Go do what you want. Wanna get drunk? Do it. Wanna rape someone? Go for it.

Let's pretend for a moment you are right. Let's say people who love the beauty and simplicity of natural selection, like to get drunk and attack young women.

Would that change the truth of evolution? No, it wouldn't. Facts don't change no matter how some people who accept those facts behave.

Am I an accident? I like to think my parents did not mind becoming parents. I noticed they didn't abort me. I also noticed there was nothing they wouldn't do for me. In return there was nothing I wouldn't do for them, despite my strong interest in scientific facts like evolution.

I don't drink, take drugs, and I'm not a rapist, despite my acceptance of the truth of evolution.

No heaven? Thank goodness. Reality is much better than living in a fantasy world.

No hell? Only a sick-in-the-head person would believe in something as disgusting as eternal torture by some magic god fairy. Sick, sick, sick.

No god? I don't buy the god nonsense, but if you need a crutch to get thru the day, believe anything you want, but at least stop denying the reality of modern scientific discoveries.

"Go do what you want."

That's what I do, anything I want. Fortunately for my neighbors I want to help people whenever I can. And I do this because it makes me happy, and not because I fear the wrath of your make-believe god fairy.

That's enough for now. I will try to check in later.

bobxxxx said...

Sorry, one more thing.

I hope you can find that childlike faith yourself and get saved by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ before it is too late.

This is why Christians have such a terrible reputation. They just love to threaten people. And your "BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE" was a threat. It was a threat of torture. It's disgusting. It's immoral. Don't you people care at all for your reputation? Do you actually want to be hated?

Young people watch Christians threaten non-Christians with the wrath of their Jeebus, and they quickly realize that Christians are insane. This is why the number of atheists in America is growing more rapidly than any religious cult, including your Christian death cult.

Junbuggg said...

Bobxxxx,

You never addressed my question. Why do you even care what we think or believe in? Why are you here? It is certainly not out of love and concern for us, since you come straight in talking down to us, calling us idiots for believeing in fairy tales.

I see right through you. You are an angry person (man I am assuming). Is it because you engage in a particular "lifestyle" and we and our JESUS believe it is wrong???? Hummmm?

You definately have an "agenda" for being here and speaking to us the way you are, even an idiot can recognize that. ;-)

You are entertaining though ~

Flippertie said...

@ son of thunder:
You said: Hitler was an evolutionist. Did you know that? Chucky Darwin was his hero. You know, that right there is enough to say what evolution stands for and why I want no part of it.

He murdered 10 million people in the name of evolution. Swell guy.


This is not an argument that believers should use. Hitler was raised Catholic, and claimed that he was doing Gods work in trying to exterminate Jews. In fact in his book 'Mein Kampf' Hitler repeatedly talks about God and the Church but never mentions Darwin or evolution.

Using your logic we should all now say "that right there is enough to say what Christianity stands for and why I want no part of it" - which obviously we are not going to do.

bobxxxx said...

"You are entertaining though ~"

And you sir are extremely lazy.

Why are you so afraid of educating yourself?

Does education make Jeebus cry?

Or do you enjoy being called an ignorant hick?

I provided several sources of information about modern biology in this thread and I have seen zero evidence that anyone looked at it.

Willfully ignorant Christians.

Just keep your worthless anti-science ideas out of our schools.

bobxxxx said...

Flippertie said "Hitler was raised Catholic, and claimed that he was doing Gods work in trying to exterminate Jews. In fact in his book 'Mein Kampf' Hitler repeatedly talks about God and the Church but never mentions Darwin or evolution."

Flippertie, I think you're the first honest Christian I ever met. Thank you. Now I know that at least one Christian isn't a compulsive liar.

bobxxxx said...

"DNA Proves Intelligent Design" really means "DNA Proves MAGIC".

Christian hicks don't realize that they are not fooling anyone when they use fancy words for magic. Calling magic "intelligent design" does not make it any less childish.

The uneducated evolution-deniers here should know they are losing their war against science. They're constant lying, their never ending brainwashing of innocent children, their disrespect for the Establishment Clause of our constitution, none of this is working.

The uneducated Christians always lose in court and the only thing they accomplish is wasting taxpayer money.

Their constant lying only makes their already terrible reputation even worse.

Christians would be better off if they just shut up about science, because the loud-mouth creationists are the best possible advertisement for atheism there could possibly be.

Katie Hesselton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Katie Hesselton said...

oops, a few sentances did not make sense. Sorry for such a long post:
Bobxxx,
I agree that a person who only chooses to look at one side of things and closes their mind to all that questions their beliefs is at best lazy. Having said that, have you ever studied the Bible in order to test its validity and reliability as a historical, factual, and even a scientific book?
Science:
You say that religion and science are separate entities and the two cannot coexist. Here are a few examples of scientific truths and/or principals that can be found in the bible. These are not stated in technical terms, but they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts. It is unusual to say the least that they do not reflect the scientific errors of the times in which they were written:
Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40: 22) (again, at a time when the earth was thought to be flat), the almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9), the law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3: 7), the hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7), the vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33: 22), law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102: 25-27), the key importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17: 11), atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1: 6), the gravitational field (Job 26: 7), and many others.
Archaeology:
Archaeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. For example, the Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey. and one more: it was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20: 1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls.
Bible prophecy:
Fulfilled bible prophecy is another way to test the truthfulness of the bible. Fulfilled prophecy can be seen with regard to the city of Tyre, of Sidon (Ezekiel 28), Samaria (Hosea 13 and Micah 1), Gaza-Ashkelon (Amos 1, Jeremiah 47, Zephaniah 2) and others. Jesus himself fulfilled 49 specific bible prophesies. To name just a couple, the account of Judas betraying Jesus for 30 pieces of silver was first documented in 515 B.C. in Zechariah 11: 12-13 and the casting of lots for Jesus’ clothing when he was crucified on the cross was first predicted in psalm 22: 18.
Additionally, we are currently witnessing the fulfillment of specific bible prophecies relating to Israel. The destruction of Israel was predicted in Daniel 9:24-26 and Mathew 24: 1-2, the subsequent forced exile of Israel was predicted in Luke 21: 24, the dispersion of Israel was predicted in Leviticus 24: 26, the re-gathering and reinstatement of the nationhood of Israel was predicted in Jeremiah 32: 36-37 and Ezekiel 34:13.
The scientific odds of disproving that these findings occur together in one book due simply to chance must reach a significance level that far exceeds the commonly accepted p-value of .01. I am not trying to force you to believe because I believe that if a person is not open to a fair examination of the evidence, or if he has set his mind against knowing God, God will honor his disbelief and will not coerce him into believing. I just hope that this does not describe you and that you may at least be open to a fair examination of the evidence I just presented.
Katie
PS- don’t you think that the fossil records of a Cambrian Explosion challenges the belief in a gradual process of evolution?

Billy said...

bobxxx,

The Bible says YOU, yes YOU will, on bended knee, some day confess that Jesus is Lord. It WILL happen. I pray for your sake it happens before you die.

By the way, I don't threaten. I tell the truth. And why should you be so scared/offended/worried/whatever by my "threat"? Could it be because a little part of you is worried we are right?

Hmmmmmmm.

Billy said...

bobxxx,

The Bible says YOU, yes YOU will, on bended knee, some day confess that Jesus is Lord. It WILL happen. I pray for your sake it happens before you die.

By the way, I don't threaten. I tell the truth. And why should you be so scared/offended/worried/whatever by my "threat"? Could it be because a little part of you is worried we are right?

Hmmmmmmm.

bobxxxx said...

"don’t you think that the fossil records of a Cambrian Explosion challenges the belief in a gradual process of evolution?"

No.

The Cambrian explosion took millions of years, which is a vast amount of time.

And please stop using the word "belief" when talking about science. Save that word for your supernatural ideas.

bobxxxx said...

"The Bible says YOU, yes YOU will, on bended knee, some day confess that Jesus is Lord. It WILL happen. I pray for your sake it happens before you die."

You're pathetic.

"By the way, I don't threaten."

You're a liar.

You're also a coward. You're afraid of your invisible friend.

Just imagine a biologist threatening Christians with the wrath of Darwin. That would be stupid, but no less stupid than Christians who threaten biologists with the wrath of their dead Jeebus preacher man.

Anyway, Christian Taliban, please continue your attacks against science and science education. Please continue threatening people with your dead Jeebus.

Why? Because you uneducated hicks are the best possible advertisement for atheism.

Katie Hesselton said...

Bobxxx- your response, again, only pertained to your evolutionary understanding(better than belief?). You did not make one comment about examining the other side of the evidence- is there some reason why you would not even consider doing so?

Ok Bobxxx- if the cambrian explosion is not considered to be a relatively sudden event, then why are paleontologists scouring the appropriate sediments on earth for whatever evidence they might find of pre-Cambrian life- to little avail I might add.

Billy said...

bobxxx,

Yes, how terrible it is that I want you to find, through our Lord Jesus, eternal life without sickness, sadness, war, pain, suffering, unhappiness, hurt, despair, hopelessness...basically the opposite of this world.

To know Jesus is to be at total peace with the promise of eternal bliss.

How awful I am to want that for you bobxxx.

Laura said...

Bob,

Wow! You've spent a lot of time and energy reading and responding to comments for this article! I can see you're passionate about what you believe.

I hope you will continue to come to this site and read other articles. And while you're at it, please read the scripture references, too. These may help you get an idea of where we're coming from since the Bible is the foundation for our beliefs. I know scriptures may sound like so much mumbo-jumbo to you, but please consider reading them anyway.

And by the way, we're not going to convince you to change your mind by debating this topic of creationism vs. evolution. In fact, rarely can we argue people into changing their beliefs. Instead, debate (although beneficial in many ways) often has the negative tendency to put us in an "us vs. them" mentality. I certainly don't want that--it always leads to an impasse! Instead, I encourage you to keep searching, keep learning, and, yes, keep interacting with us crazy Christians.

All the best to you,
Laura

bobxxxx said...

Laura, thanks for your friendly comments which you made despite the obvious contempt I have for your religion.

My goal here was not to debate anything because there really isn't any debate about the science of evolution, which is a bloody fact denied only by people who know virtually nothing about it.

Instead my goal was to educate, to explain why biologists love evolution, explain why it's an extremely important scientific concept, and explain why the basic facts of evolution are accepted by all serious scientists.

But I can't ever hope to convince people who don't want to learn anything. That's the problem with most evolution-deniers, they have no curiosity, they have no desire to improve themselves.

A few months ago I finally did meet one creationist on the internet who was obviously more educated than most Christians, but he was quite a bit scientifically illiterate. His problem was he was getting his science information from professional liars who didn't know what they were talking about. I'm talking about the creationist organization called the Discovery Institute, which has never discovered anything, and which scientists call the "Dishonesty Institute".

I explained how the Discovery Institute was lying about one of the most powerful evidences for evolution. They were completely avoiding the point of this evidence by changing the subject to something that didn't matter, which they were also wrong about. This piece of evidence is obvious smoking-gun proof for the idea that people and chimps have an evolutionary relationship (distant cousins). The point of this evidence is ERVs found in the exact same location in the DNA of these two species can only be explained by the fact that people and chimps share an ancestor who lived about 6 million years ago. Anyone who studies and understands ERVs would understand why the "common designer" idea can not possibly explain this evidence for evolution.

The creationist actually understood me, and he agreed this evidence was a big problem for the magical creation idea, and he agreed to read the books I recommended. I congratulated his desire to learn something, and I expect by now he accepts evolution completely.

For your information I went to Catholic grammar school for 9 years, kindergarten thru 8th grade, where I learned nothing about science. Then in a public high school biology class, our teacher never once mentioned the word "evolution" and I somehow graduated from that high school without ever knowing the evolution idea existed. This was a long time ago (1960's) and evolution was something that people (at least the people I knew) never talked about.

Later, after throwing out the Catholic religion because it was so obviously a man-made invention, I finally found out about the evolution idea, which immediately made sense to me, even though I knew next to nothing about it. Much much later I finally found the time to study it, and I discovered how incredibly interesting it was, and how much there was to learn. Now it bugs me to see half the population of the country I live in deny the truth of this wonderful beautiful simple scientific idea called evolution by natural selection. It's like I live in a nation of flat-earthers who are demanding that their flat-earth idea get equal treatment in public schools. I feel like my country has become an insane asylum, and the reason for this insanity is of course Christianity.

Billy, I know your Jeebus. I know he's dead. I also know he is going to stay dead.

You see, Billy, unlike you, I'm not insane.

Katie Hesselton, please look up Cambrian Explosion on Wikipedia. You will find the answers to all your questions there.

bobxxxx said...

Katie Hesselton said... "You did not make one comment about examining the other side of the evidence- is there some reason why you would not even consider doing so?"

Yes, the reason was I work 7 nights a week, so I had to postpone my reply to your comments until this morning. OK, here it is:

There is no other side of the evidence, because there can be only one possible interpretation of reality. Christian woo-woo is a waste of time to take seriously.

"Having said that, have you ever studied the Bible in order to test its validity and reliability as a historical, factual, and even a scientific book?"

I have read parts of the Bible and all I find is gibberish. It's extremely obvious most of the Bible was made up, because every reference to Mr. God has to be fiction, for the simple reason it's bloody insane to pretend anyone could ever know anything about this supernatural creature, which by the way doesn't have a shred of evidence, which is why I threw the god hypothesis in the garbage where it belongs.

I would call the Bible an anti-science book, especially Genesis, which of course is why Christians are so terrified of evolution.

Are there facts in the Bible? Perhaps, but who cares? The book is boring. The world would be better off without it, considering all the violence it has caused.

"Fulfilled bible prophecy is another way to test the truthfulness of the bible."

Of course the Bible was translated many times over many centuries, and of course it may have been modified so that this book of fiction would be more believable.

Prophecy, or the name I prefer, predictions, is what scientists do all the time. For example, they predicted that 2 chromosomes would be found in the genome of chimpanzees, that would match almost perfectly 1 chromosome in humans, which is human chromosome two, which is a fusion of 2 chromosomes.

Well, guess what? The prediction those molecular biologists made turned out to be completely correct, which by the way became one of the strongest proofs for the idea we are cousins of chimps.

Nothing in your worthless Bible comes close to what 21st century scientists are able to predict.

Katie Hesselton, this is interesting:

"the vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33: 22)"

Did the Bible say how vast? And was that really hard to figure out, since back then there was no light pollution and they could easily see the Milky Way Galaxy, which is invisible to everyone who lives in an urban area today.

How vast is the universe? Thanks to the Hubble Telescope, scientists can now estimate there are more solar systems in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the earth's beaches and deserts. This means if our solar system were to disappear, that would be equivalent to one grain of sand disappearing from the Sahara Desert.

So a question Christians should ask themselves is "Why would Mr. God, the Master of the Universe, single out this insignificant planet in the middle of nowhere for special treatment?"

This is why the story about Jeebus is so obviously nothing more than wishful thinking.

Laura said...

Hey Bob,

It's okay if you have contempt for religion. So do I!!

Many years ago I threw "religion" in the trash can--and then I discovered a RELATIONSHIP with a real person--the only true God, Jesus Christ. That relationship makes man-made religion look like used toilet paper.

So you see, we have something in common here--a hearty dislike of religion!

bobxxxx said...

So you see, we have something in common here--a hearty dislike of religion!

We probably have many things in common, but we don't agree about Mr. Christ.

Of course you must realize that somebody who died 2,000 years ago is impossible to have a relationship with.

Oh, right. You probably believe in the Resurrection thing, another religious idea that doesn't have a shred of evidence, except for some dead gullible witnesses. Not exactly the evidence I would require for something as impossible as a 3 day old corpse getting up and walking around.

From my previous comment:

So a question Christians should ask themselves is "Why would Mr. God, the Master of the Universe, single out this insignificant planet in the middle of nowhere for special treatment?"

I think this is something Christians never bother to think about. Why do they think earth is so special when we are just one planet of zillions of planets?

Nathan Jones said...

Help me understand, Bobxxxx, why the idea of a designer is unscientific.

People build and grow things all the time. Should we get to the point of producing AI, will the robot deny it was created? No, that'd be an unthinkable scenario.

A designer makes perfect, logical sense. It's just hard for some humans to cope with the idea that we are made and are not on top of the ladder.

And, if there is a designer, it's not illogical to think that he has the capacity for communication and wishes to communicate with his creation, maybe even has a vested interest in what he has created.

Billy said...

Laura,

Christianity is my RELIGION!

Gee, thanks a lot for calling that toilet paper.

You owe all Christians an apology!

Katie Hesselton said...

OK Bobxxx,
We could probably go back and forth a thousand times and still not agree. So I won't offer anymore biblical arguments. I will just let you know that I will pray for you (please don't take this in a condescending way) and here's why: I believe prayer works!- Since the age of 11, I prayed daily for my sister to come to know Christ (for years and years). She by the way is a very intelligent business women, graduated from a prestigious college with honors, and was a staunch atheist. One day, she called me and said she had become saved. It started, she said, with an unexplainable desire to read the bible and then a desire to know God. She began praying and her life started changing (this occurred over the course of a year)- now her faith is so strong that she has lead several other people to Christ. I know that you will probably think this story is nonsense, but if you don't mind humoring me, I will just go ahead and add you to my prayer list!
Katie

bobxxxx said...

Help me understand, Bobxxxx, why the idea of a designer is unscientific.

Invoking a designer, also known as Mr. God, is invoking supernatural magic. Even the most religious scientist knows he or she can't use supernatural ideas to explain the natural world. A scientist can't say "Here a miracle occurred." He would be laughed out of his profession if he used this lazy solution that solves nothing.

Religious ideas and science are two completely different subjects. Using god to replace gaps in our knowledge just doesn't work.

Billy said...

bobxxx,

This world we live in is the secular world of science and knowledge. Oh wow...what great shape this world of yours is in!

The world that will exist under the perfect reign of Jesus Christ is the one for me. You can have this world.

You won't understand that. I guess science and knowlegdge is everything!

:)

bobxxxx said...

Katie Hesselton, your idea that a Master of the Universe would listen to the prayers (also known as talking to yourself) of seven billion human apes on an insignificant planet (out of zillions of planets) is wishful thinking.

I'm still waiting for a Christian, on this blog, or anywhere else, to answer this question I asked earlier:

"Why would Mr. God, the Master of the Universe, single out this insignificant planet in the middle of nowhere for special treatment?"

Asking questions like this is called "thinking". Christians almost never think, in my opinion.

Billy said...

Ooops...that last line should read:

I guess science and knowlege ISN'T everything.

(Always need to proofread!)

bobxxxx said...

Oh wow...what great shape this world of yours is in!

I think this planet is doing just fine, if you can ignore the never ending religious wars in the Middle East.

The world that will exist under the perfect reign of Jesus Christ is the one for me.

Instead of wishing for a supernatural world, which is a childish fantasy, why not do what you can to help make the real world a better place?

I guess science and knowlege ISN'T everything.

Perhaps you're right, but if not for scientific discoveries, there would never be enough food to feed seven billion people.

Nathan Jones said...

Well, Bobxxxx, Christians think, we just think differently than you do. We base our worldview on a different foundation and framework, that's all.

There's nothing magic about the idea of a designer. If I'm admiring a Saturn Sky (and I do often), then I have to take into account that the car's existence comes from a design team. If I have questions about why the upholstery is black instead of green, I know I can take into account the designer's preference.

To leave out the source of where we can get our answers and why things are they way the are, that is unscientific, and in your words "not thinking."

bobxxxx said...

There's nothing magic about the idea of a designer.

,,, the car's existence comes from a design team.

You are mixing up natural examples with supernatural examples.

When I used to design and code computer software, I did not use a magic wand. I used my hard work.

When Mr. God designs and creates something, that's magic. That's the mother of all magic tricks. You can't deny that making something out of nothing is magic.

I love my Harry Potter books which describes a fantasy world of wizards and witches who perform magic tricks for their convenience every day. But I know it's fiction.

The Bible would be harmless if only people understood the stories in it are no more real than what Rowling dreamed up.

Unfortunately, millions of people in religious countries like America and Iran actually believe in their holy books, and the result is massive disgraceful scientific illiteracy, which is good for nothing but slowing down human progress.

bobxxxx said...

provincial: Limited in perspective; narrow and self-centered.

Using the above definition, that's what Christians are, provincial.

They think their planet is special enough for a god to send down its son to get executed and resurrected (another magic trick).

They forget that if the earth disappeared that would be equivalent to one grain of sand disappearing from the Sahara Desert.

Nathan Jones said...

If A=B and B=C, then A=C, right, Bobxxxx? We're both computer programmers by trade, and intelligence is needed to program computers, right?

So, as one intelligent person to another, the argument you present that because I don't agree with your worldview makes me stupid or lazy does not compute.

You'll find on this blog very intelligent people seeking and researching answers to life, especially you'll see if you read through the articles and comments. We look at all the facts, though, not conveniently leaving out the biggest component to gaining all knowledge - that there is a designer that made everything, including science. From that point, that's where our worldview begins.

Sal said...

Soooo, evolution making everything out of nothing makes sense but a being making something out of nothing does not make sense?

God made everything from part of himself his breath. For evolution God would be the Big Bang. That Big Bang was intelligent though and is concerned about what he made on Earth.

Paul M said...

well Bobxxx, it is obvious you have chosen your god. In your wisdom you believe you are the highest form of intellegence in the universe, right? That was my belief for most of my life. But one day I had to make a decision to accept by faith the creator and my only hope of salvation (Jesus) or the big accident that produced order out of chaos. I chose Jesus. If you can't accept that you are in the majority. I would suggest you read 1 Corinthians 3:19. You are accomplishing exactly the opposite of what you intend because you inspire me to open my Bible and that just causes my faith in my God to grow.

Billy said...

bobxxx said

"They think their planet is special enough for a god to send down its son to get executed and resurrected"

No, we think God loved US (not the planet) so much that He sent His Son to die FOR OUR SINS (again, not because this planet is special - whatever that means).

Jesus died for YOUR sin bobxxx. The price for sin is death and Jesus paid the price for YOUR sin on the cross so you do not have to pay that price if only you believe.

son of thunder said...

OK, bobxxx. Evolution is easy to prove. So prove it.

Go here: http://www.lifescienceprize.org/index.html

And look at the looooong list of evolutionists who will NOT take the challenge. C'mon. Put your money where your mouth is.

Got the evidence? Then you got the money.

bobxxxx said...

Nathan Jones, I'm wondering if you misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

When you or I design something, of course we are not using magic.

When your god fairy designs something, of course that is magic.

Do you understand, or do you want to pretend when your Mr. God creates something out of nothing, that's not a magic trick?

Other magic tricks include the Resurrection. Bringing a corpse back to life is most definitely magic.

This is why I threw out the god hypothesis. God is just another word for "Magic Man". I think when people realize this, they start to wonder why they have been so deluded for so long.

bobxxxx said...

"OK, bobxxx. Evolution is easy to prove. So prove it."

Evolution does not need defending. It was accepted as fact by biologists a century ago, and the evidence continues to grow every single day.

Your "take the challenge" is childish nonsense. Scientists have better things to do than accommodate scientifically illiterate people who are too lazy to learn anything.

bobxxxx said...

"... so you do not have to pay that price if only you believe."

Keep up the good work Billy. Your threats are the greatest possible advertisement for atheism, because what intelligent person would want to be as insane as you are.

bobxxxx said...

"In your wisdom you believe you are the highest form of intellegence in the universe, right?"

I never said that.

bobxxxx said...

Sal said... "Soooo, evolution making everything out of nothing makes sense but a being making something out of nothing does not make sense?"

No serious scientist ever said something can come from nothing.

Evolution explains how life developed from the first simple primitive living cells.

Life got a foothold on earth billions of years ago thanks to organic matter from comets and/or volcanos under the sea, or from some other natural process.

Only Christians believe something can be made from nothing, and that's called magic.

son of thunder said...

bobxxx said: Religious ideas and science are two completely different subjects. Using god to replace gaps in our knowledge just doesn't work.

What is religion? Religion is trying to understand the world we live in, how it got here, and where do I fit in?

Your religion is so-called science while mine is fairy-magic. OK. Fine.

Were you there those billions of years ago? Did you see this so-called big bang? Did you see the first cell split? Did you?

I'm guessing the answer is "No". So, you have to take this on faith. You have to believe that this is how it all began. By the way, "faith" and "believe" are both "religious" words; and I have heard top-line evolutionists say "We believe..." a lot.

OK. I wasn't there when God said, "Let there be light." I wasn't there when the sun began to shine. I wasn't there when the first whale breeched the surface of the ocean. I wasn't there when Adam opened his eyes.

I accept this on "faith", the exact same thing you have to have.

I give you a challenge, then: prove the Bible wrong. Prove that the resurrection is a fairy tale. Of course I know you'll come back and say it's "childish", but, if you're right what have you got to lose? If you're right and can prove that the Bible is a book of nonsense, then we are the people with egg on our faces.

Billy said...

bobxxx...

Your belief and trust in all things scientific is, well, with near religious conviction.

Why should I share this trust?

After all, I remember a Newsweek cover in April 1975 about scientists proclaiming THE COMING ICE AGE. Now all we hear from the scientists is GLOBAL WARMING!

Your science went from ice age to global warming in about 30 years. What will your "science" be telling us 30 years from now?

So much for your FAITH in science. LOL

Katie Hesselton said...

Your right, Bobxxx, no one did answer your question:
“Why would Mr. God, the Master of the Universe, single out this insignificant planet in the middle of nowhere for special treatment?"

Personally, I do not believe that God did create another race of man out there on some distant planet. I admit that it's very easy to believe the contrary, because the universe is so vast (an understatement). Regardless, the bible, to my knowledge, is silent on this subject. I believe God gave us all that we here on this earth need to know. If intelligent life were found on another planet this would not contradict the bible.

You also said:
“Only Christians believe something can be made from nothing, and that's called magic.”
Proponents of the big bang theory believe that the big bang was the origin of matter, space and time. So, where and in what did this big bang occur?- and what was the causal agent? If this is not believing that something sprang from nothing then please correct my misunderstanding. Personally, I don’t believe the big bang contradicts the bible either- I just believe that God was the causal agent and that he did it (created the heavens(space) and earth(matter)) in one day:)
Katie

Billy said...

bobxxx,

Let's look at your religion - science. It has a prophet/messiah. His name is Al Gore. He has a scripture in the form of a movie. He has a mission - that the world be saved through him. He says he has a monopoly on the truth - there is no room for debate or dissent. You must believe in his message or else you will be doomed to die from global warming (hell?). His followers blindly follow him and feel all others must share in their faith in him.

And you have the nerve to scoff at Christians?

So much for your high and mighty defense of your religion of science. LOL

bobxxxx said...

son of thunder said... "prove the Bible wrong. Prove that the resurrection is a fairy tale."

I don't have to prove the Bible is wrong. The world's biologists have already done that. I'm talking about Genesis.

The Resurrection - if you want to make the wild claim that a three day old corpse can become alive, then you, sir, must provide some pretty fantastic evidence. It's not up to me to disprove your insane fantasies.

Dead witnesses do not impress me. You need powerful scientific evidence and you don't have a shred of it for your Jesus-was-a-Zombie idea.

Katie Hesselton, I've never been very interested in the Big Bang idea. I have noticed that no scientist has ever said something came from nothing.

What was there before the Big Bang is a question that, as far as I know, would be very difficult to answer, and probably, as far as I know, this is something scientists can only speculate about. So right before the Big Bang would be an excellent place to hide your God-of-the-Gaps.

However, after the Big Bang (about 14 billion years ago I think is the current estimate), everything has been figured out by the world's scientists without the god hypothesis. So you can't stick your God-of-the-Gaps anywhere else. You can't invoke supernatural magic to explain the development of solar systems. You can't use God's Magic Wand to explain the development of life in those solar systems. It's all natural processes. God had nothing to do with it.

Christian extremists (and Muslim terrorists, isn't that interesting?) deny the facts of evolution for many reasons, including the childish insane stories in Genesis, their revulsion to the idea they are cousins of chimps, their lifetime of brainwashing, their hopeless laziness, and their refusal to learn anything.

But the science of evolution is not an opinion. It's a fact and biologists know it's a fact. Most of the evidence Christians don't know about because they're too bloody lazy to read a book about it. Their other problem is their total reliance on professional liars for all their science information. Why don't they read about scientific discoveries as described by the scientists who actually made those discoveries? Because they are bloody cowards. They are terrified of the truth.

I really don't care about whether people believe in a god fairy or not. The subject is as boring and as stupid as whether or not Santa Claus is real.

What interests me is the evolution-deniers, because they are wrong, because I know they are wrong, and because they are disgracing my country.

I know you people are cowardly and lazy, but at least take a look at this comment from a reader of the book Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. Look at it. Jeebus doesn't care if you read something. Don't be afraid. Don't be a lazy worthless piece of crap. Just read it. Click my name for the link to amazon.com.

bobxxxx said...

I'm very sorry about this cut and paste job, but I thought this information was important for you people to read, because this person describes your problem perfectly.

This is also from the amazon.com reader reviews of Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.

Excellent review Esk. The problem with most fundamentalist young-earth Christians is that they positively refuse to open their minds enough to investigate the "other side". I even heard a song once on the radio that in essence was praising the fact that true believers always leave those godless "evolution" books on library shelves UNREAD. Now if that attitude is not one of complete ignorance and total closed-mindedness I don't know what would be. So sadly, no matter how much you or I or any other evolutionist may recommend a book on evolution they will most probably not read it. Of course to them it is we evolutionists who are the ignorant and closed-minded ones!

But still, some of the staunchist Biblical literalists somehow muster the courage to investigate the "other side". It's tough to do this because it often entails alienating family and friends in the process. I have fundamentalist Christian relatives who would probably think I had "gone bad" and was "going to Hell" for not believing in the literal truth of the Bible. I love them but I will not renounce my reason and common sense just to stay in their good graces. I admittedly tread lightly on the subject of evolution when around them but when they say something that obviously testifies to their complete ignorance of it, such as "We know we didn't come from apes, don't we Kenneth!", I don't hesitate to try and educate them.


Please click my name for more reader's comments.

bobxxxx said...

Billy: "Billy said... bobxxx, Let's look at your religion - science."

Billy, when you learn the difference between religious ideas and scientific ideas, and when you understand these ideas must be kept separate, and when you stop insulting the entire scientific community, I might bother to reply to your comments.

bobxxxx said...

Katie Hesselton said... Personally, I do not believe that God did create another race of man out there on some distant planet.

Neither do I, because there's no evidence that your Mr. God created anything.

However, since life did develop on earth rather easily, and since there's zillions and zillions of planets out there, it's fair to say the universe is teeming with life in thousands (or millions?) of other planets.

It's also fair to say at least a small fraction of planets (several hundred planets?) have life that has evolved to be as intelligent as the human apes on earth.

So did God send Jeebus down to all those planets to get executed and resurrected? No, of course not. Even Jeebus wouldn't agree to that.

My point is the Jeebus story is just plain nuts.

Billy said...

bobxxx said

"when you learn the difference between religious ideas and scientific ideas"

yet he totally misses the point that in reality science CAN require a religious type faith when it comes to such things as evolution and ESPECIALLY global warming...uh, oops, its CLIMATE CHANGE now since global warming (that so called INDISPUTABLE SCIENTIFIC "fact" now being ridiculed) is more and more suspect which proves my point that "science" can sometimes be fact today and farse tomorrow.

In fact, this PROVES scienctific beliefs can require MORE faith than our Christian beliefs because our beliefs DON'T CHANGE! God's Word is the same forever yet science changes continously!

bobxxx said

"when you stop insulting the entire scientific community, I might bother to reply to your comments."

After all the abuse he has poured out on us...do I REALLY need comment???!!!

I purposefully gave him a dose of his own medicine and obviously poor bob can dish it out but can't take it. Only what I said wasn't insults, what I said about Al Gore, global warming (er, uh climate change) and it's RELIGIOUS followers and the fact today, farce tomorrow nature of science is sometimes TRUE!

I think I've got YOU on the run bob ol' buddy.

Nathan Jones said...

This conversation no longer serves to edify the believers, and I'll only worry about your soul so long, Bobxxxx, before I need to shake the dust off of my shoes and move on (Matt. 10:14).

Nobody spends their time trawling for ID articles unless they have a serious beef with God. That's between you and Him. If you don't make your peace with God, though, you'll eat yourself up and continue being miserable.

You've had your time providing "evidence" for Evolution, though using the last desperate argument - ad hominem attacks. As you're adding nothing anymore to the conversation, you may have one last reply and then I'm going to delete any more comments to this article going forward.

I ask the brethren not to respond anymore, but to continue to pray that Bob will know his Savior this side of death.

Billy said...

This is a comment for my fellow believers (not bob) just to clarify my position. Please know I am not against science. I think it is great. I just think we should remember our knowledge of science is limited to the capacity of the human mind.

bobxxxxx said...

One more thing Jones. Since you going to censor me anyway, I'm going to be completely honest with you.

All creationists are idiots. You, sir, are a bloody idiot.

Did you notice that every single biologist in the world (except at Bible colleges) completely accept the basic facts of evolution.

So why do you think you know more about modern biology than they do?

The fact is you know nothing. The only thing you're good at is spreading lies, censorship, and showing off your breathtaking stupidity.

You're no better than a terrorist and you should be treated like a terrorist.

Now go hide behind your censorship, Mr. cowardly moron.

RG said...

"Did you notice that every single biologist in the world (except at Bible colleges) completely accept the basic facts of evolution."

A statement like that demands statistical evidence. Otherwise it's just an assertion.

son of thunder said...

One last thing, bobxxx, “People will insult you and hurt you. They will lie and say all kinds of evil things about you because you follow me. But when they do, you will be blessed. Rejoice and be glad, because you have a great reward waiting for you in heaven. People did the same evil things to the prophets who lived before you."
-Matthew 5:11-12.

In fact, because of you, I had an incredibly good day. You aren't attacking me, though. You are attacking your Creator. And He is your Creator whether you choose to believe it or not.

So, like Nathan, I shake the dust from my feet. You are on your own. I, and everyone on here, will be held guiltless when you face your Lord and God on the day of judgment.

Laugh if you want now. One day you will not be laughing.

son of thunder said...

And, bobxxx, Muslims have a creation story too. Why don't you go mess with them a while?

VeniSheckChicolte said...

Hey yall! Just a note from a 13-year-old sitting in a kitchen over a lap-top with mom readin' over her shoulder, that had to be one of the best things i've ever read! That was really strengthening for me. Just seeing fellow believers in Jesus standing up for what they believe in!!!! It was amazing to read and i wish I had been on when all of this craziness was happening!

I don't want to start more arguments... but... I've always wondered what atheists are so afraid of... I mean... if we're such idiots... such morons... such mental people... then, what are they afraid of? Why are we such a threat? Just leave us to our 'Fairytales and Myths'. Let us have our God, and you can your... um... not God... I guess...
I'm praying for you Bobxxx... I really hope one day you can find Jesus and accept him...

son of thunder said...

Y'know VeniSheckChicolte, I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as an athiest. Everyone has a god of some kind. It might be money or fame or even self, but everyone has a god.

For evolutionists, god is self. There is none higher than self. If there were someone higher than self, then they would be answerable to that someone. And they don't want that. So they keep "alternative" theories out of the classroom and call anyone who disagrees with them names or insane or idiots.

Just pray for him, and those like him. There is much anger and hatred in that religion.

Billy said...

Veni,

It's nice to know and I thank God we still have young people like you in the world. Thanks for excellent and inspiring (and Veni's Mom congrats for being there over her shoulder!).

VeniSheckChicolte said...

You know son of thunder, I never thought about it... but yeah... each person has a god of their own...
I don't think I will ever stop praying for people who need prayer, even if they don't want it. My Uncle is not a Christian, and I know right now, he may not want anything to do with God, but I still pray.
Thanks for the compliments! I love my Lord and I'm gonna do everything I can to keep my faith in him! I really wish there WERE more kids my age involved in Christ. I am actually a member of a website for Christian kids and teens! It's really inspiring for me to go to a place where I can interact with kids who believe in Jesus, God, and the Bible just like I do!

Sal said...

Bobxxxx has been making the news!