In October 2009 I was interviewed by Bill Salus, author of the popular Psalm 83-themed book Isralestine, host of the radio program "Prophecy Update," and evangelist on the end times website Prophecy Depot. Bill and I spent much of the interview discussing my recent article The Wars of the End Times.
Bill has been kind enough to allow The Christ in Prophecy Journal to reproduce the "The Nine End Time Wars of the Bible" interview in transcript form, edited into an article series. To listen to the original radio program in mp3 format, I invite you to visit Prophecy Depot or KWBB.
In this segment, Bill and I will be discussing why we believe will be the next end times war — what I call the "War of Extermination" based on Psalm 83 — and not the Battle of Armageddon or even the Ezekiel 38-39 War of Gog-Magog.
Bill Salus: Welcome to another addition of the Prophecy Update, whereby we attempt to authenticate the sovereignty of God through Bible prophecy by informing you as to what Bible prophecy has to say about these days. Today my good friend Dr. David Reagan will be joining me to discuss the wars of the end times.
David has published a third edition of a must read book called America the Beautiful: The United States in Bible Prophecy. This release couldn't be timelier in the light of the genuine concerns about America's future. Dr. Reagan is an expert on the subject. I say this not just because he has a solid prophetic background, but because he has an extensive political one as well. Isn't that correct, David?
Dr. Reagan: Well, that is true. I was highly involved in politics for about 20 years. Plus, I was also a professor on American Politics, Constitutional Law and International Law and Politics.
Bill Salus: Many people probably didn't realize the background you have there.
Will the next end time war be Armageddon?
Bill Salus: Now, to the topic of the wars of the end time. As you well know, David, Hezbollah has 40,000 rockets aimed at Israel. Some of those may be targeting Tel Aviv someday soon. Iran is about to produce their first nuclear weapon and North Korea is also rattling their nuclear sabers at Israel. Israel is considering a preemptive strike upon Iran. All this has people, of course, concerned that we could be heading for the end times Armageddon War. Now, what do you think this is all leading up to? Is it Armageddon, David?
Dr. Reagan: Well, it is certainly leading up to a major confrontation. But, it is not going to be Armageddon. As I said in the article that I published recently about these wars of the end times, it seems like the only war that most people are aware of is the War of Armageddon, or what is called or referred to as the "Battle of Armageddon."
Every time a war breaks out in the Middle East, as you well know, Bill, you get a bunch of calls and messages. I do, and so does everybody else involved in Bible prophecy. People are asking, "Is this the war of Armageddon?" Even the secular world — that's the only end time war that they know about. They are always writing about and wondering if maybe this or that is the War of Armageddon.
The War of Armageddon is just one of them, as I point out in my article. There are different ways to count them, but I have counted nine end time wars that are in Bible prophecy. Armageddon is just one of those, and it certainly is not going to be the next one.
Bill Salus: Revelation 16:16 is where the term "Armageddon" appears vividly.
What will be the next war?
Dr. Reagan: Well, that is a good question and, Bill, this is where you play a very, very major role. Most Bible prophecy experts including such well known people as Joel Rosenberg all believe that the next great prophetic war in the Middle East will be the war that is outlined in Ezekiel 38 and 39 which portrays Russia leading a coalition of Muslim nations against Israel. But, in your book Isralestine, Psalms 83 points out that couldn't be the next prophetic war in the Middle East. I think you really plowed some new ground when you wrote that book and made that point.
There are several reasons that you gave, but two that I would mention that are very important to me is that in Ezekiel 38:8,11,14, three times it says that the Russian-led invasion of Israel will not occur until Israel is living securely in un-walled villages. Well, Bill, you know as well as I do that Israel is not living securely today and they're certainly not in what we would call un-walled villages. In fact, the Israelis are in the process of building a 400 mile long wall right down the middle of their country to try to defend themselves against terrorist. Israel is anything but secure today. So that condition just doesn't exist.
Another thing that's interesting that you pointed out in your book is that the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will have certain specified allies that come down with Russia, and none of those allies have a common border with Israel. Now, why in the world would there be a Russian invasion of Israel with Muslim allies and none of those allies be a single country with a common border with Israel? Jordan is not mentioned, Lebanon is not mentioned, Syria is not mentioned, Egypt is not mentioned, and Gaza is not mentioned.
In your book, which I consider a real important book where you talk about Psalm 83, you point out that there has to be a war before the Ezekiel 38 and 39 War, a war in which Israel will defeat all of the Muslim nations with which it has a common boundary. Your theory is that this is the war that is mentioned in Psalm 83. And, I'll tell you what, I think you are right on target. I think the Psalm 83 War will be the next prophetic war in the Middle East. I think Israel, as you say in your book, will conquer all of those Muslim nations that have a common boundary with it. Israel will be greatly expanded in size, in power, in influence, in wealth, and then it will be living in security. Then it will be living in un-walled villages and then it will have fulfilled all the conditions for the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 when Russia will come down with an outer circle of Muslim nations that do not have a common boundary with Israel.
If anyone hasn't read Isralestine, they need to read it right away, because I think the Psalm 83 War of Extermination is probably going to be the war that is going to lead to the next fulfillment of prophecy — the destruction of Damascus.
This will most likely happen when all of Israel's bordering nations come against Israel. Hezbollah has its 40,000 missiles and Syria has it's very sophisticated missiles. Syria will be shooting those only 125 miles. It is not going to be shooting them a thousand miles like Saddam Hussein was doing. And, plus, they are very sophisticated missiles. I think the only hope that Israel will have is to resort to the use of nuclear weapons to defend itself. I think it will blow Damascus in Syria off the face of the map, just as it is prophesied in two places in the Old Testament (Isa. 17:1-14; Jer. 49:23-27). When that happens, I think the whole Arab world will go into a panic. I think they will turn to their natural ally Russia, and ask Russia to come to their aid.
Bill Salus: Today in Israel, actually since June, they have been preparing for a multi-front war with Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and Hamas. What we are talking about is a very high probability that the prophetic war that you are referencing in Psalm 83 and the dramatic prophetic event of Isaiah 17:1 which is the destruction of Damascus could happen in the very near future.
David, your thoughts on this are a little bit speculative, so we don't want to spend too much time on it, but because I believe that we could be talking about the next prophetic headline in the Middle East, let's spend just a second on it before we get into these other wars that follow.
If Israel strikes Iran preemptively because of their nuclear sites, it is likely don't you believe, that Israel is justified in preparing for war with Hezbollah, Syria, and Hamas and Iran and that there is going to be a retaliation?
Dr. Reagan: Well, absolutely! A preemptive attack would be justified, just as it was in the War of 1967 when the Israelis finally decided, "Hey, we are about to be attacked on all fronts. If we just sit here and wait for the attack, we don't have a hope." And so, they launched a preemptive attack that was the key to winning the 1967 War. They are going to have to launch a preemptive attack here as they cannot simply sit by on the sidelines and wait for the missiles to start coming.
Most people don't realize how small Israel is. We are talking about a country only 75 miles wide and about 300 miles long. They just can't sit there and wait for these things to come. For example, they cannot wait for Iran to get a nuclear weapon. The Iranians have made it very clear the moment they get one they are going to use it. All they need is one. They just drop it on Tel Aviv and that is going to take care of the whole country. They don't have to hit it with multiple nuclear weapons.
Bill Salus: As far back as August 2008, the Kuwaiti Daily reported that chemical components had made their way from North Korea through Iran, through Syria, and into Hezbollah's hands. We have said they already have 40,000 rockets.
Carrie Hart, a friend of mine in Israel who is the Jerusalem correspondent for Jewish Voice Television, just emailed me the other day and said that Israel in January 2010 is going to be preparing a massive nationwide chemical and biological defense drill for their whole society because they are very concerned about this happening.
Will diplomacy make a difference?
Bill Salus: Do you believe there is the potential that this whole international thrust to try to trade land for peace and create this two state solution that something is going to blast out in the Middle East? Also, Ahmadinejad just said recently he is ready to start talking with Obama, however, he doesn't want to talk about the nuclear programs. He says there are plenty of other things to talk about. Do you think that that there could be a temporary (it would of course have to be temporary because we know Psalm 83 is coming) peace that could be crafted through these diplomatic efforts?
Dr. Reagan: I don't think so. It could happen, but I don't think that is a high probability, because I think that Israel is going to have to attack Iran. Any other nation in the world would do that. If any nation in the world, like Canada for instance, was saying as soon as they had developed an atomic weapon they we're going to drop it on Washington, D.C., would we sit there and twiddle out thumbs and talk about it? I don't think so! I think we would take immediate action to make sure that did not happen.
The whole world is so hypocritical when it comes to Israel. The world will condemn Israel for doing exactly what every other nation in the world would do. If we had somebody shooting rockets across the Rio Grande River into Texas, how long do you think we would put up with that before we invaded Mexico and put an end to it? And, yet, we say to Israel, "Oh, you must not go into Lebanon and you must not go into Gaza. You must be patient and you must negotiate." It is absolute nonsense!
Bill Salus: I couldn't agree more, David. I also don't think they will grab for the temporary peace. I think that it has gotten too far and too serious for that now.
Dr. Reagan: One thing, Bill, that I don't understand is how people can ignore your thesis. I mean, take a person like Joel Rosenberg who is an outstanding thinker about the Middle East, and yet I was at a conference recently where he was asked specifically about Psalm 83 and he just dismissed it and said he didn't think it was all that important. He went on to say that he felt like Israel was relatively living at peace. How can people ignore the fact that Israel is not living in peace and not living in un-walled cities? I just don't see how they can ignore this.
Bill Salus: Well, that is why I am grateful that the Lord used me to bring this contribution into the arena. So many, many people are reading the book now and starting to do their own studies and form their own thesis about it. The war does seem extremely near and people need to be paying attention to it.
Dr. Reagan: How else do you explain the absence from the Ezekiel 38-39 nations of any Muslim allies that have a common border with Israel? You think they are just going to sit there and be calm and do nothing at all while Russia invades with all these other Muslim nations? It doesn't make any sense!
Bill Salus: You are right. It's not like Russia is not getting into the mix even with these inner circle of nations. They recently received a huge contract for exporting military technologies to Saudi Arabia.
Dr. Reagan: That's right.
Bill Salus: Saudi Arabia would be under the banner of the Ishmaelites in Psalm 83:6-8. What is also interesting to me is that these contracts that Russia is developing with Saudi Arabia are also recently being made with Syria. When Israel defeats those nations, that is going to upset Russia quite a bit because who knows where they will be in the midst of collecting monies from those contracts. Instead, Israel is likely going to confiscate those weapons.
Dr. Reagan: The other thing that is very interesting, too, is the way in which Egypt and Saudi Arabia and nations like that — moderate Muslim nations to some extent that at least don't have the kind of government like Iran does — are evidently scared to death of Iran at this point and are giving tacit approval to Israel to launch an attack by giving them fly over rights and letting them send nuclear subs through the Suez Canal. It is pretty obvious that they are saying loud and clear to Iran that they are going to cooperate with the Israelis in this attack because they are as scared of Iran as the Israelis are.
Bill Salus: Right! It goes back to the defeat of Saddam Hussein. Iran has for a long time had their eye on the Islamic crescent being under their dominion.
Dr. Reagan: That's right.
Bill Salus: The Fertile Crescent Arab nations are concerned that Iran's nuclear aspirations are more far reaching then just taking out Israel and wiping it off the map.
Should the Church still be here during Psalm 83's fulfillment, we would become an excellent witnessing tool to the world.
In the next segment, Bill and I will be discussing the timing of the Rapture and the United States' role in relation to the first end times war.