Monday, March 29, 2010

Christians Fight For Righteousness

Nathan JonesPDFBy Nathan Jones

Should Christians fight for righteousness?

As Christians we are called to share the Gospel, leading hearts and lives to Jesus Christ (Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). But, we are also called by Jesus in Matthew 5:13-18 to be "salt and light" in the world, showing by our loving example what Jesus stands for. As Hebrews 13:16 states, "And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased."

And so, it is not just us sharing the Gospel that the Lord wants, though that's primary, but for us to share Jesus' love with everyone based on the living example He demonstrated for us while on earth (Lk. 10:27). And, what was Jesus' example? He healed the sick, fed the poor, showed mercy to the sinner, and gave the world the truth.

Not every Christian agrees with this direct approach to dealing with social evils, though. They believe the key to changing society is to focus solely on sharing the Gospel in the hope that changed lives will change society. One friend of the ministry kindly wrote in to share this view (and gave me permission to repurpose it here):

I just read your latest email about standing up for righteousness in the end times. I know my attitude is flawed, but here it is. I don't see the point in putting forth the effort in trying to bail the sinking ship of the world by trying to fight against unrighteousness when the world is surely and quickly heading to that "hot place" in a hand basket. I do believe we are in the end of the end times, and I do believe what is prophesied to transpire will transpire.
What's the point of trying to whitewash the house when the foundation is consumed by termites? Besides which, taking a stand against all the awful things going on in the world — too numerous to mention — only accomplishes polarization. Don't misunderstand, I stand for righteousness, and will gladly say so (whatever the issue) whenever the occasion arises. It would be wrong to do less. But, to go off with the agenda of finding a cause to crusade against and doing so... well, I just think it's a waste of precious time that could be better used preaching the gospel (rather than alienating those who most need to hear it) and warning of the soon return of Christ. This old world and world system is way beyond patching up, and in my opinion it's a waste of time to try to do so or even fight against it.
Instead I'd say, "Take that passion and go forth proclaiming the gospel and the soon return of Christ," (which I know Lamb and Lion does) and then live or die (if need be) for that, not some issue that will be irrelevant after the Kingdom is established. We'll never changed the behaviors of man until we change the hearts of man.

Presenting the Gospel is our Great Commission. We certainly cannot change the behaviors of man until we change the hearts of man, true, but as Christians we have to face the reality that we cannot bring more than a gleaning of the world to salvation. Today's days are just like the days of Noah when, "God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen. 6:5). Just as Jesus foretold in Matthew 24:37, the end times we live in will not be conquered for Christ without Jesus' actual return. Before Jesus' Second Coming, only a small fraction of the world will have their hearts changed by Jesus.

An interesting experience our ministry friend went through a short time after sending their first email helped them see the value in standing up against evil for righteousness' sake. They were willing to let us read the experience to encourage other believers to take action.

I wanted to share my experience regarding standing up for what you believe. I don't know if you'll recall, but I wrote a couple weeks ago expressing that — other than the gospel and soon return of Christ — I thought it a waste of time for Christians to get involved in secular matters. I kept that opinion until the following happened.
In my area we have what is colloquially referred to as "sexpresso stands" with "pastie baristas" who wear near to nothing and sometimes provide "extra services." I'll leave that to your imagination. I have two within 1/4 mile of my driveway. Of course, as a Christian I'm unhappy with this, but I've never said anything, mostly because it's like spitting in the wind to do so.
However, when the contributing editor of our local paper wrote an article stating that all of us who objected were old fashioned prudes who needed to get over it, I was prompted to act. I wrote a brief and to the point opinion to the paper. See below:
"I'm writing in response to Rob Woutat's 'Barely Clad Barista' article of 3/12/10. I find both the baristas and patrons of these stands to be pitiable. How is it that we've raised our daughters with so little self respect that they are willing to sell the viewing of their bodies to merchandize a cup of coffee plus tips? And how is it that the customer's have so little self control that, at the promise of seeing a little flesh, they lose control of something below the waist — their wallets? The greater fault lies with the owners of the stands who exploit the baristas and the public and callously denigrate the morals of the community just to make a buck. How is that we, the people, allow this? If we don't stop this now we will soon be seeing a lot more nudity in a lot more public places. I guarantee it."
Of course, I subsequently got lambasted by a lot of hate email from people with pseudo email names who hadn't learned to spell yet. I expected as much, so I didn't think much of it other than I was surprised that out of 80+ responses there was only one person who felt as I do and was willing to say so.
However, yesterday I went to a medical appointment and was quite surprised when the receptionist rushed up to me effusing, "You are my hero! I read what you wrote in The Sun and I agree with everything you said! I had an incident at one of those stands." Later, when we were alone I asked her about the "incident." She related that she, nearly nine months pregnant with her and her husband's second child, had driven by one of the stands to find her husband parked in line.
I've pondered all of this, and I know a lot of people feel like I do about the issue; but they are hesitant to say anything because they don't want to put up with all the flak that is sure to follow. But, I see now that in many cases it's not enough to mentally assent to what's right. You need to have the courage to stand up for your convictions, otherwise those who are being hurt have no ally.

As Edmund Burke (1729-1797) warned so well, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Use the time we have left on earth wisely to make a difference in people's lives, being "salt and light" for Jesus Christ. Teach the world the Gospel, but in life and action show them the difference between good and evil. Do as our friend counsels, "have the courage to stand up for your convictions, otherwise those who are being hurt have no ally."

Who can fathom what opportunities to share the Gospel will arise and great things God will bring about from your speaking out against evil?

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

I totally agree with everything said. Basically these social/moral issues confront us to make us choose sides -and that is what Jesus will do someday, separate the sheep from the goats. For instance, the issue of homosexuality makes us choose between what God has said and what man says - who are we going to side with? Who's word do we believe?
In God's economy nothing is wasted. Satan would have us believe that we are all alone in our beliefs and that it is pointless to speak out, but often (unfortunately) those who may believe similarly to us are silent for fear of the kind of response the writer got for voicing an "unpopular" opinion. While we are to love our "enemy" (those who oppose us as believers), we should not be so lukewarm in our response to their unbiblical beliefs that there is danger in God saying to us "I never knew you".

son of thunder said...

From where I'm sitting in the parking lot at work, I can see the local adult "bookstore" (I actually question whether they sell books) by turning my head slightly left. And when I leave in the afternoon I drive right by their full parking lot.

There has been a local campaign to bring awareness to the harm porn does, but it actually brought MORE business to the place.

Satan has a foothold in Clark County Indiana that he doesn't want to let go of.

Nathan Jones said...

Son of Thunder, I know the daughter well of one of those Clark Co. porn stores. She a good Christian who fears deep relationships with men and marriage because of her repulsion of her father and what he sells.

Some naively say porn is a "victimless crime," but they are so wrong.

Expected Imminently said...

Nathan
This latest article highlights how troubled I have been on how to answer Purpose Driven due to their passion to help society ‘hands on’.

British society was massively changed for the better by born again believers who not only preached a clear Gospel, but also reformed many of society’s ills. George Muller of Bristol was one, Elizabeth Fry reformed prisons, Dr Thomas Barnado sought out street urchins to begin orphanages, William Booth raised up ‘The Salvation Army’ many, many, former and present believers make a difference to society. (Although Puroise Driven seem to think they are the only one’s) That has to be a good thing, but what must accompany ‘good works’, first and foremost is The Gospel of Jesus Christ CLEARLY proclaimed, not muffled and hidden away so as not to offend.

The old timers did just that, Salvation from sin and deliverance from hell and the return of Jesus Christ was first proclaimed. The Gospel IS an offence to those who are perishing, but putting it off until an opportune moment may be too late for some. NOW is the accepted time, NOW is the day of Salvation. 2Cor6:2.

This is what I see missing from Purpose Driven. THE Gospel is shielded so as not to cause offence; the intention may be to try and mention it at some point, but meanwhile it is better to enter into heaven halt and blind, than not enter at all. Matt.18:8.

Matt.11:5 “The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and THE POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM 6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”

I see this ‘social gospel’ akin to Judas’ response at the ‘wasted’ anointing oil which spoke of Jesus’ coming death. Judas considered the oil better to be sold and the money given to the poor. Judas was keen to rake in the proceeds to claim for his own personal use and would have denied the public proclamation of the cross using the poor as an excuse while blowing his own trumpet at such a righteous consideration. (Was this the first evidence of the ‘social gospel’ in action?) Jesus told him to leave the woman alone, her act of worship has stood the test of time, while in Jesus’ own words “For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always”. John12:3-8.

Salt is used to prevent corruption and enhance taste, only The Gospel has this effect – preach the Word in and out of season ‘Oh taste and see that the Lord is good …’.

Light is Christ and Him crucified, let the Light of the Gospel’s cleansing power within us shine out in this present darkness to draw the lost to Jesus.

It’s about priorities, of course we must do charitable works as believers, but Purpose Driven puts the cart before the horse while demonstrating the ‘Judas Syndrome’ imo.

son of thunder said...

Well said, EI. I, for one, never thought of Judas' action that way.

Anonymous said...

Is this article only touching on social ills or also political ills? Should Christians also stand up against government beyond voting and voicing their concerns when appropriate? Just asking because I've been involved in a discussion with some brothers and sisters in Christ about political activism among Christians.

As far as social ills, I have people I went to school with that are openly gay and they know that while I love them as people, I don't agree with their lifestyle. They know where I stand, but I make that stand lovingly. Where as Christians who attack this social ill politically, all they do is build walls between themselves and these people. The homosexuals I know don't want to talk about God because of the "religious, self righteous, Christians". That's a hard obstacle to overcome when trying to witness to them after the fact.

I guess I have issues with the way Christians go about righting wrongs when it puts the fruits of the Spirit on the back burner...such as self control, peace, gentleness, kindness, love, etc. (A little history on me...my mom always said I was the type of person that looked for justice for those wronged and I wasn't shy to stand up against wrong doers, but God has changed my heart in the last year when it comes to Christians and politics). Some of my Christian friend are slinging mud over things going on in the government and I cringe at the things said and hostility behind it. I think about how the Bible says "blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God".

I also had read this article by Dr. Reagan and totally agree with it:

http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_social13.php

Anyway, I may be off topic here, but when I read the parts of this blog where it said, "They believe the key to changing society is to focus solely on sharing the Gospel in the hope that changed lives will change society", I wondered, "yeah, what's so wrong with that?" But I suppose that was more in response to not politics, but getting out there and helping people.

I hope that made sense?! lol

In Christ,

~R

Expected Imminently said...

Hello ~R

Those lost in sin, for whatever reason, need to call Christians names such as ‘hypocrite’ in order to justify themselves. We can only proclaim the Gospel – which is an offence to the perishing, and leave it with The Holy Spirit to do His work once the seed has been sown. Ezekiel2:1-8 “… you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or whether they refuse, for they are rebellious…” (and watch out for incoming missiles). Some plant, another waters, but it is God who gives the increase. 1Cor.3:6,7.

Whatever the ‘ills’ of society are, the root cause is sin. In His mercy God gives gifts to mankind. Some are gifted as politicians, they get on with the work and do the very best they can ‘as unto The Lord’. Ecc.9:10; The fact there are evil workers alongside them must not prevent them from practicing their God given gift. The political worker may enable a relatively peaceful society so that The Gospel can be proclaimed.

The politician is no different to the doctor who ministers alongside the fallen; too the fallen. Equal to the ills of society, sickness and injury are a result of the fall and sin. Just because some patients die must not prevent the doctor from continuing to practice his gift to the living.

This may seem insurmountable to you because God ‘may not’? have gifted you to cope with it. Nonetheless, as it worries you, you can at least pray and support those who are so gifted. Meanwhile seek The Lord for your own personal gift and spend your time and energy working for Jesus in your own particular ‘vineyard’. In doing that, you may look over the wall to another’s vineyard, see they need help and give them a hand IF your own vineyard is well cared for. :)
E.I.

Anonymous said...

Thanks E.I., that was beautifully put :) I don't have a problem with Christians keeping up on politics, voting and even voicing concerns, but I have a brother in Christ who is quite belligerent over it...refusing to obey and respect the government like God tells us to (I Peter 2:12-17), talking about holing himself up in his home with his guns, etc. I just don't see this particular view on politics as being beneficial. It gives the foolish something to talk about instead of giving them something (the Gospel) to think about. He and some others act as if the Gospel isn't complete without patriotism. There seems to be a blurry boundary between patriotism and discipleship.

Anyway, we had a good discussion and while we might not agree, I think we all took some good thoughts away from it :)

~R

Nathan Jones said...

Good point! Christians must always remember 1 John 4:21 when we are "salt and light" taking a stand for righteousness - "And he has give us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." As the song goes, "And they'll know we are Christians by our love..."

Billy said...

Anon said "The homosexuals I know don't want to talk about God because of the "religious, self righteous, Christians"."

I think they don't want to talk about God because they know God calls their behavior an abomination and says they will go to hell if they don't change their ways.

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Note it says the saved "WERE" these things, not "ARE" these things.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Expected Imminently said...

Hello ~R

The ‘bunker mentality’ of your friend disregards what Jesus said in Luke 19:11-13 “… occupy until I come”.
E.I.

Billy said...

Anon said "but I have a brother in Christ who is quite belligerent over it...refusing to obey and respect the government like God tells us to"

So, Anon, would you have gassed the Jews if you lived in Germany during WWII if the government told you to do so?

Billy said...

Anon,

You want me to "respect" a government that will not fund the murder of unborn babies?

Billy said...

Correction...I meant to type a government that will "NOW" fund the murder of unborn babies.

son of thunder said...

Doesn't the Bible say that ALL authority is given by God; that He raises up kings and brings them down? If that's true, doesn't that mean that Obama, Pelosi, and Reed were put in place by God?

We as Christians walk a tightrope. We are commanded to pray for our leaders. We are commanded to obey our leaders. But what do we do when man's law contradicts God's Law?

Billy said...

Thunder, What you say is true BUT I don't think that means we do evil on behalf of governments.

I wouldn't break a Jew's window with a brick or report them to the Gestapo or drop the cyanide tablet in the gas chamber were I living back in Germany during WWII.

Anonymous said...

Billy...

As far as the people I know that are gay, of course talking about God makes them uncomfortable because then they have to face the reality of a Creator and what He deems as sin. But that doesn't mean we treat them any differently then any other sinner. We have all sinned!

I Peter 3:15
but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

As far as the government goes...we have to respect the institutions and leaders put into place (by God), but that doesn't mean we do everything they say. If they ask us to do something that contradicts what God says, then we obey God and accept the consequences (jail, death, whatever). If I was in Nazi Germany and told to kill Jews, I would say no because God says not to murder and accept the consequences.

On this issue, you have to be careful not to swing the pendulum to either extreme. You have to respect authority, but that doesn't mean you do everything they say if it goes against what God would have us do and on the other extreme, you don't become militant and disrespectful and cause disorder. The one time we have a right to disobey the government is when it commands us not to do something God has commanded us to do, or when it commands us to do something God has commanded us not to do.

And Billy...you question respecting government as if it was my idea...I just posted what the Bible says :)

I Peter 2:12-17
Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Romans 13:1-7

The Apostle Paul says two things are required of you as a Christian: submit to the government and pay your taxes.

Titus 3:1-2--"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men."

~R

son of thunder said...

Something to consider: When Paul penned his comments about the government and paying taxes, Believers were being rounded up and were thrown to the lions or were dipped in tar and lit on fire (while alive) to light caeser's gardens.

Vengeance is Mine, says the LORD, I will repay.

Anonymous said...

When you think about those kinds of things, what the Christians of biblical times went through, and how they were commanded by Scripture to respect and honor the authority of government, it makes our circumstances look SO much better! Whenever I want to get upset about the government and the things they do, I think about our brothers and sisters in other countries who, because of their faith, face death and violence daily. As far as I can tell, they aren't out trying to change the politics of government and their circumstances, but just worshiping God and witnessing to anyone that will listen.

~R

Billy said...

Anon said "But that doesn't mean we treat them (gays)any differently then any other sinner. We have all sinned!"

Where you are wrong...

We treat them differently by not letting them getting married which GOD said is for one man and one woman.

Billy said...

Anon said "As far as I can tell, they aren't out trying to change the politics of government and their circumstances, but just worshiping God and witnessing to anyone that will listen"

We must stand up against the government (through voting, protest, money, etc.) for it is promoting gay marriage, federally funded abortion, socialism, trillion dollar deficits, etc. not to mention is against Israel and doing nothing about a nuclear Iran.

Thank God the Founding Fathers didn't take your advice Anon and leave things as they were or this country wouldn't exist.

Billy said...

How tragic that anyone would resign, not just themselves, but future generations of children, to live under any repressive government and not do anything about it.

son of thunder said...

Billy, I agree with you that we must make a stand, and trust me, I do. (Sometimes I think Baron Hill knows me by name). But our main weapon is prayer. And it is up to God to make the change.

I liken the days we live in to the days of Jeremiah, and I weep for America. But what do we do? Not pay taxes? The Bible says we're supposed to, but what do we do when they use our money for evil? I wish I knew.

Anonymous said...

All I'm saying Billy is that the Bible does not say we are called to be political activist. We are called to follow the example of Jesus. Did He try to change or overturn the government of His time...one that was far worse then what we face today? There's a difference between helping those in need while giving them the Gospel and protesting (excessively) government and giving the lost something to talk about (in a negative way). It's not a coincidence that there's such a negative stereotype of Christians these days in political circles. I guarantee if Christians humbled themselves and focused more on being servants and witnessing, Christ's light would shine so much brighter to the lost then the image of "Bible thumpers" that many have of Christians.

I'm not saying homosexuality or abortion or other social ills shouldn't be addressed, but I think it needs to be address through the Gospel and through prayer and not through hostile politics. You can't force morals on the lost. Until they understand the Gospel, anything you try to force on them will fall on deaf ears.

When I said we are not to treat them differently, I was talk about treating their sin as worse then others' sin. Are Christians out pushing for laws to punish those that are prideful? How about sentencing those that lie or commit adultery in their hearts? Are children put into Juvenile hall for not honoring their mothers and fathers? A sinner is a sinner, is a sinner. EVERYONE is sentenced unto death, but have the chance of Life through the Gospel of our Risen Savior!

In my previous posts, I did say:

"I don't have a problem with Christians keeping up on politics, voting and even voicing concerns..."

It has to be done with humility, love and respect. I'm addressing the issue of Christians who say, "I believe the Bible!", but are putting the fruits of the spirit on the shelf and picking and choosing Scripture to condone their pride and behaviors.

By all means, vote and voice your concern, but if you speak without love then you're nothing but a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal (I Cor 13:1).

I already had this conversation with some other brothers and sisters and I'm really not wanting to start it back over with you. I posted my question looking for Lamb and Lion's thoughts, not to start the circular conversation over.

Blessings!

Billy said...

Anon,

There are Christian like me that are very PASSIONATE about certain issues like KILLING BABIES. We have strong beliefs and choose to speak them loudly and proudly. That doesn't mean we should be described as follows...

political activist
negative stereotype
Bible thumpers
hostile politics
force morals
force on them
picking and choosing
putting the...spirit on the shelf
condone their pride
speak without love
noisy gong
clanging cymbal

Billy said...

Anon said " I posted my question looking for Lamb and Lion's thoughts".

I know that. But we have a right to comment on your posts otherwise this would be a pretty dull site.

If you don't want to read my comments here's what you do...click on the icon to the left of my name and that will make my comments disappear.

son of thunder said...

I didn't know that, Billy. I'm gonna have to remember that when I read your posts.

Just kidding. Happy April Fools Day.

;-)

Anonymous said...

LOL @ Son of Thunder :)

Billy, please don't be upset with me. If you knew me, you'd know I don't hide or banish people just because we don't see eye to eye :)

The reason I said I really didn't want to continue the conversation was because I heard your stance, which is very much like the stance of the other group I was talking to. It really was just a repeat for me. Not that I don't like discussing things or hearing other sides of things, but I had invested many hours and several days to a very similar conversation and as a mother of 3 young children, I just can't spend that much more time on it :)

This will be my final point on the topic. I kind of feel like you took segments of what I had said and twisted them a bit. I didn't say that Christians who are highly invested into politics are those things you listed off...I was trying to state that is how they are perceived by the lost. And, I never said YOU were any of those things because I don't know you. I was speaking about the brother in Christ I DO know and how he handled himself and how others were perceiving him. He actually lost friends on a social network because of the things he was saying and he was even losing business at his own business. He had gotten to the point that he was posting almost all political articles, videos and comments and there was barely any mention of his Savior. Politics trumped the Gospel...at least that was the way it came across to me and several others. And just so you know, I didn't hide him or delete him because I didn't agree with him :)

The problem I see is that whenever I talk to a Christian who is zealous over politics (because there is a difference between being aware and taking advantage of your rights such as voting and speaking unlovingly, belligerently and disrespectfully to people of authority whether they are right or wrong), their defense is all "what ifs". What if the founding fathers did/didn't do this or that, what if I didn't get out there and holler and scream at those immoral politicians, what if, what if, what if. Personally, I deal with a Sovereign God! I don't think for one second that without me, God would lose control of the situation! Now, on the other side, I provide plenty of Scripture that DOES say what is expected of Christians, yet those hung up on politics ignore it. I'd have to look back through the posts, but I don't think you addressed any of the Scripture I posted that said we are to obey every human institution, we are to honor authority, etc. How can you or any other explain away what the Bible is quite clear on? That's way I made the comment about Christians who pick and choose Scripture.

Anonymous said...

There are many good teachers that tell it the same as I've been trying to explain (although they probably say it much better then I do!). John MacArthur has a great series called "A Christian's Responsibility to Government". It's free to read the script or download the MP3. Check it out! www.gty.org

I just listened to a series by Dr. Erwin Lutzer on "The Triumph of Unanswered Prayers" and in the second part of CD2, he talked about the book of Habakkuk! A great read and it really applies to this topic!

God said in the Psalms that He creates vessels of dishonor so that His power can be made know through them! God has a plan and we are aware that bad things are going to happen to set the stage for His return! That doesn't mean we ignore what's going on or even encourage it, but our greatest defense is the Gospel and prayer!

Now, I'm not saying we turn a blind eye! Whenever I have this discussion with another Christian such as my friend I've been discussing, they automatically disregard my comments that state I'm not against Christians being involved in politics in regards to voting, voicing concern in a decent, humble and respectful manner and instead, they automatically try to put words in my mouth that I don't care about abortion, gay marriages, etc. My mother volunteered with a Pro-Life group for quite sometime when I was a child. She protested peacefully, she acted as a grief counselor, etc...and we're talking about Kansas. She even protested outside of Tiller's clinic on several occasions. So I do know about speaking up about abortion. So please don't make assumptions on my part.

Anyway, I wasn't against discussion, but I wasn't looking for circular conversation. We are here to build up one another, even on tops we don't agree about! Other people have made comments and I felt encouraged by them even if I didn't agree with everything 100%. I apologize if I made you feel torn down in anyway!

Okay, I've really got to get off of here now!

Have a blessed weekend everyone!

~R

Expected Imminently said...

Hello ~R

I am rather bemused at how this all blew up? (scratchy head.) It's akin to speaking at 'cross purposes' - whatever that is in reading?
One good thing that's come out of it is that we now know more about you dear busy mum of three! Ah I remember it well. Have a lovely hols with your family. Hug

I am soon off to Wales for a long weekend, so it's a bit early, but I hope you will all know the peace, love and blessed assurance of your salvaion with the certain knowledge that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead! MARANATHA!
EI

son of thunder said...

R, that's the tightrope I was talking about. I mean, we don't want to wind up like that bunch of "Christian" militiamen in Ohio.

They were going to kill a cop and blow up his funeral to inspire a revolution.

There's nothing wrong with being politically active and speaking out against sin, but we also have to remember that Obama and his cronies were placed there by God in His infinate wisdom. We have to remember that His ways are not ours and His thoughts are beyond ours.

son of thunder said...

And I don't think Christians shpuld be milquetoasts. We should be involved politically. We should stand out front of abortion clinics and share the Gospel. We should attend gay pride parades and share the Gospel. We should stand outside stripclubs and share the Gospel. But ultimately it's GOD who does the convicting, not us.

Anonymous said...

You're right Son of Thunder...it is a tight rope! And I'm far from milquetoast (I know you was using that term generally). I've always been a foot in mouth kind of person, but God has really been growing me up in that area (I'm not perfect, but much better then I use to be ;) I think that is why I'm so passionate about this topic. I grew up in a very politically oriented home. I felt very strongly about politics up until Obama was elected. I was devastated, but God spoke to me! I heard the sermon by John MacArthur about a Christian's Responsibility to Government and I finally felt I understood!

I had posted 1 Peter 2:18-25, but even more eye opening are the verses that come after that:

Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

It says that servants are to be subject to their masters, even the unjust ones. It also says that Jesus was a meek lamb and although He was reviled, He did not revile...He suffered, but He did not threaten. He was given to us as an example and we are called to follow in His steps!

Verses like that one and the others I've used in this discussion speak very clearly in how Christians are to walk in the world!

Anyway, I pray you all have a blessed weekend!

son of thunder said...

I agree with what you wrote, Anon. Do we take everything that's thrown at us or do we form militias and try to overthrow the government? I believe the answer is neither. We are to be meek. What is meekness? Meekness is strength or power under control.

The USA still has a system which we can work in and around. What happens, though, when it's gone? For that, we MUST look to God and the 1st century church and the church of today in closed nations.

Billy said...

Anon,

A recent news event makes me understand you position better. Some Christians, particularly those that don't understand the Word, can end up in groups like that one recently that wanted to start a war with the cops and the anti-christ.

If you take your faith to the wrong place it can be dangerous. I see what you were saying now.

Billy said...

Thunder - I shouldn't have told about the icon. I didn't think about the rest of you picking up on that and squelching me too!

:)

son of thunder said...

I'm not gonna squelch you, brother. You keep things interesting ;-)

Nathan Jones said...

Billy, the blog's dull without the comments!?! Gee, thanks. :)

Billy said...

Nathan,

I went back and read my comment. You're right, that's what I said!

A BIG OOOOOOPS!

I meant the comments feature would be boring without comments.

Excuse me now as I remove my foot from my mouth...

son of thunder said...

Oooops is right, Billy. It's a good thing we all like you. :)

Step 1) Open mouth.

Step 2) Insert foot.

Step 3) Swallow.

Anonymous said...

LOL! You guys crack me up!

Billy...I probably could have explained myself much better and what type of "activism" I was referring to :)

Take care everyone!

~R

son of thunder said...

Educational AND entertaining.