Monday, April 26, 2010

The Gog-Magog Battle - During the Millennium?

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy Nathan Jones

We'll continue in our attempts to identify when the Gog-Magog Battle will take place, next by looking at three views that place the Gog-Magog Battle in relation to Jesus Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth called the Millennium Kingdom. Each view will list pros and cons, gleaning some help from what I believe is the best written book on the subject — Northern Storm Rising by Dr. Ron Rhodes.

Between the Tribulation and the Millennium

Supporters of this view place the events of Ezekiel 38-39 in an interlude time period between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom.


1) An interlude time period between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom is given in the Bible. Daniel 12:12 reads, "Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." Revelation 11:2-3 reads, "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." The difference between the two references is 75 days.

2) The fifth general timing clue that requires Israel living unsuspecting and in peace before the Gog-Magog Battle (Ezek. 38:11) could easily be attained by Christ's victorious return.


1) With Jesus having defeated all the armies of the world at Armageddon (Rev. 19:19), no army would be left to invade Israel so soon.

2) With Jesus' return at the Second Coming, no Gog-Magog invasion would be needed to get Israel to again acknowledge God (Ezek. 39:22,29).

3) With Jesus present to provide everyone's needs and the curse partially lifted (Isa. 11:8) and the Earth reformatted by earthquakes (Rev. 6:12-14; 16:17-21), there would be no need for Israel to have to burn any weapons for fuel into the Millennium.

4) The interlude time limited to 75 days does not give Israel the seven months they need to bury the dead invaders' bodies from the Gog-Magog Battle (Ezek. 39:12).

5) The interlude time period between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom of 75 days will most likely be used by Jesus to judge the world in the Sheep/Goat Judgment (Matt. 25:31-46) and rebuild the planet.

At the Beginning of the Millennium

Supporters of this view, such as Arno Gaebelein, place the Gog-Magog Battle at the beginning of the 1,000 year reign of Christ.


1) The fifth general timing clue (Ezek. 38:11) that requires Israel living unsuspecting and in peace before the Gog-Magog Battle could easily be attained under Christ's Kingdom.


1) With Jesus' return at the Second Coming, no Gog-Magog invasion would be needed to get Israel to again acknowledge God (Ezek. 39:22,29).

2) With Jesus having defeated all the armies of the world at Armageddon (Rev. 19:19), no army would be left to invade Israel so soon.

3) No wicked people will have survived the Sheep/Goat Judgment to enter into the Millennial Kingdom to start a war (Jer. 25:32-33; Matt. 25:31-46; Rev. 19:15-18). Only believers who survived the Tribulation enter the Millennium and they have no reason to declare war on Christ.

4) No weapons would be available to the invaders of the Gog-Magog Battle, nor be left to burn for seven years, for as Isaiah 2:4b states, "They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks."

5) No war exists until the end of the Millennium. Isaiah 2:4b describes the Millennium being a time of world peace. "Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." Revelation 20:7-9 describes the only war that will happen during the Millennium, and that is at the end of the thousand years when Satan is let loose from the pit to rally unbelievers in that age against Jesus Christ.

6) With Jesus present to partially lift the curse (Isa. 11:8) and reformat the Earth from the ravages of the Tribulation (Rev. 6:12-14; 16:17-21), the Millennial Kingdom will begin in an almost holy state. Ezekiel 39:12 describes the land after the Gog-Magog Battle needing cleansing from the defilement of the dead invaders' bodies. Defilement contradicts the pristine condition the Millennial Kingdom will begin with.

7) Islam will not exist during the Millennial Kingdom. The unifying theme today among the coalition of nations that attack Israel in the Gog-Magog Battle is their satanically inspired Islamic hatred of Israel and desire of its wealth. Since Satan will be bound (Rev. 20:1-3) while Jesus will be reigning directly over the Kingdom, no opposing satanic religion like Islam will exist to unite those nations during the Millennium.

8) With Jesus' newly returned to rule from Jerusalem with "a rod of iron" (Ps. 2:9), no invader would dare invade Israel.

At the End of the Millennium

According to Dr. Rhodes, the majority of supporters for this view tend to come from a non-evangelical background (p.189).


1) Revelation 20:7-8 places a Gog-Magog Battle at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth — Gog and Magog — to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore."

2) Similar terminology exists between Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 concerning the great number of invaders involved.

3) The prosperity described in Ezekiel 38-39 that Israel possesses would be fulfilled by God's blessings on Israel during the Millennial Kingdom.

4) God uses supernatural weather in both accounts to destroy the invaders.


1) Ezekiel's chapters would be out of order with this view. Ezekiel 33-39 covers the restoration of Israel and is followed by chapters 40-48 which describe Israel during the Millennial Kingdom.

2) Revelation 20's chronology doesn't harmonize with Ezekiel's chronology. Revelation 20 describes the Millennial Kingdom, which is immediately followed by chapter 21 concerning the eternal state.

3) Revelation 20:9's account records the Gog-Magog invaders being incinerated by fire from out of the heavens. The invaders would no longer have bodies that require Israel to bury them for seven months (Ezek. 39:12).

4) Israel would have no reason to use seven months to bury the dead invaders (Ezek. 39:12) when God is just going to resurrect them at the end of the Millennium, judge them at the Great White Throne Judgment, and then throw them into the Lake of Fire.

5) Israel would have no reason to burn the invaders' weapons into the eternal state.

6) Ezekiel's and Revelation's descriptions of the invading armies do not match. Ezekiel describes a coalition of Russia and Muslim nations attacking Israel. Revelation 20:8 describes a much larger scope, with the invaders coming from the "nations in the four corners of the earth."

7) Ezekiel's and Revelation's descriptions of the battlefields do not match. Ezekiel describes the Gog-Magog Battle taking place on the "mountains of Israel," while the Revelation 20:9 account (NAS) states the battle takes place "on the broad plain of the earth."

8) Ezekiel's and Revelation's descriptions of Israel's rulers do not match. Ezekiel 38-39 follow chapters 36-37 which describe the rebirth of Israel, a nation not yet in belief in God nor has accepted Jesus as Messiah. The Revelation 20 account has Jesus already ruling from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.

8) Ezekiel's and Revelation's descriptions of the invader's rulers do not match. "Gog" is in control of the coalition against Israel in Ezekiel's account, whereas Satan is in control of the coalition against Jesus in Revelation's account. While Satan is clearly mentioned in Revelation's account, it is unknown if Gog is possessed by Satan or is a man possessed by Satan.

9) Ezekiel's and Revelation's descriptions of Israel's faith do not match. In Ezekiel 38-39, God uses the Gog-Magog Battle to make Himself known to Israel and the world. In Revelation 20, Israel has acknowledged Jesus as God and King for 1,000 years.

10) The unbelieving children of the Tribulation saints who have survived to live into the Millennial Kingdom will be the ones who wage war against God at the end of the Millennium, as opposed to the children from the age of the "time of the Gentiles" who wage war in Ezekiel and Jesus' accounts (Luke 21:24).

11) John's use of "Gog" and "Magog" in Revelation 20 is really only used to draw a comparison between Ezekiel's Gog-Magog Battle and the one John is describing at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

So, just when does the Gog-Magog Battle happen? Before or during the Tribulation, or during the Millennial Kingdom? In the next part of this "Impending Invasion of Israel" series I'll draw my own timing conclusions, as well as explore God's nature which this battle gloriously reveals.


DrNofog said...

Here's some stuff for cranking up our excitement levels...

Syria transforms Hizballah into a regular army
The "New Hizballah" built by Syria sparks ME summer war fear

Two more Obama U-turns affecting Israel's security
Obama U-Turn on UN penalties for Iran, defensible borders for Israel

Iran's radar-evading unmanned speedboat debuts in Hormuz exercise.

DrNofog said...

Anybody see the Hal Lindsey report last nite?

He did a great job on the Ps83-Isa17 and the Gog-Magog events.

Mentioned a US geological report on Israel's yet-to-be tapped gas and oil reserves... Also made an interesting observation about Russia shutting off the gas flow to the EU last year and how the EU leaders don't like the threat of being blackmailed like that.

Hal made the point that when Israel finally taps the gas reserves and if they "secure" the Ps83 reserves then the EU will negotiate with Israel for a more secure gas source and the loss of revenue for Russia will destabilize their economy and, although they have no real fondness for the Islamic nations, this will be the "hook in their jaw" that angers them and causes them to link up and lead the hoards.

"Fascinating..." as Spock was fond of saying...

Laura said...

It's interesting to me that Gog-Magog come for "silver, gold, livestock, goods, and plunder" (per Ex. 38:13). Certainly, that's not oil and gas, but it could be riches purchased from oil and gas.

In other words, maybe it's worth noting that according to this verse in Exekiel, Gog-Magog doesn't seem to have oil/gas in mind so much as "wealth" (as in, we've lost our means of getting wealth, and we want your already accumulated wealth).

I wonder: Will it take lots of time for Israel to accumulate that wealth? Or is it already available? If available now, then this prophecy might not be dependent on the gas/oil finds.

son of thunder said...

Israel currently purchases nearly 90% of it's gas from Russia. Imagine what losing that money would do to an already cash-strapped nation.

Russia doesn't need oil. It needs money.

Billy said...

What Russia needs God will give to them in a BIG way :)

I have to admit I'm a bit depressed today after reading the current Lamplighter Magazine. It looks like the trend is to remain unsaved or even get "de-saved".

Expected Imminently said...

Ezek.38:4 Refers to WHY Gog attacks Israel; because God has his hooks in them to draw them out. That sounds like reluctance to me. They come to take ‘spoil’, as the only obvious reason they can give for their reticence, after all, isn’t that always the reason for invasion. What else could it be.

I see this as reasoning to try and explain WHY they feel so drawn, not that any particular ‘spoil’ was on their agenda intentionally. Even Sheba and Dedan seem surprised at why they have invaded saying ‘have you come to take spoil’? What spoil, what benefit, what purpose does Gog have, why bother.

Because they have no choice in the matter, God gives them a pull and they cannot refuse. This is why I do not think trying to discover what kind of spoil helps, it is secondary. First and foremost GOD

DrNofog said...

Hey Billy...
Cheer up: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near." -Luke 21:28

I think we may have found the False Profit... [and on his website they to de-savings & de-baptisms]

Third Temple in Is'Rael to be Embassy of alien-controlled Galactic World Government.
For over 30 years, Rael Maitreya (left) has been the leader of a growing world movement known as Raelism - a self proclaimed 'atheist religion' claiming direct contact with invisible 'extraterrestrial beings' resembling Biblical 'fallen angels'.

DrNofog said...

As far back as the '70s I've seen Bible teachers emphasize it this way: -"...have you come to take spOIL?"

Expected Imminently said...

It MAY be right, but from the text it isn't obvious to me at all. I see every generation putting their own spin on what is newsworthy at the time (newspaper exegesis.)and making it 'fit'.

My views may be because I have been largely isolated from others opinions and a play with words such as spOIL for a very long time?

The Hebrew word for spoil is 'shalal'

shalal oil perhaps? ;)

Anonymous said...

EI, yes it was me at John's.


DrNofog said...

The KJV has been the standard for millions of years so a number of generations have played on that word. It's only been around the turn of 1900 when all these new-fangled versions and perversions have come out, getting rid of all the "thees, thous, and thines", and using big words like "plunder".

Were you referring to shale oil in a play?

son of thunder said...

The KJV? Millions of years? Did I miss something?

DrNofog said...

son of thunder said...

The KJV? Millions of years? Did I miss something?

A very astute observation, my young Jedi Padawan-Apprentice...

son of thunder said...

The KJV: if it was good enough for Moses, it's good enough for me.

Expected Imminently said...

EI's eyes are wide open. KJV millions of years old? Forsooth the Bible aint that old, nor the earth, come to that! You jest, you naughty American. :D

My feeble dry humour was striving for a pun on SHELL oil.

Expected Imminently said...

Thanks so much for responding. John Chingford emailed me today to let me know. It was great to see you on 'my' turf; thank you so much for encouraging John.

It was a surprise to me that Constance Cumbey is Roman Catholic, but made sense when I thought about it.

Please excuse me Nathan for butting in. Hug x

Anonymous said...


I've posted at Constance's before but very rarely. I still read there occasionally. I'm pretty sure she was raised as a Seventh Day Adventist but didn't know she'd embraced Catholicism. Judging by some of her references to Bible scrip I think she is somewhat confused and I don't mean to sound unkind.

They're still hanging out for sacrifices to occur in Jerusalem so that Solana can declare himself the AC by June 2010.

In the past, some of the FP website guys had been hammering pretribbers for denying we were in the trib. Methinks they should have been a trite more humble.


Expected Imminently said...

It is so silly to claim we are now in the trib. How are they so sure about Solana? God has said the A/c will not be known until he confirms the covenant with Israel, whatever that is? This reeks of extra biblical gnosis given to only a select few (cult).

You aren't being unkind about Constance Cumbey. It is right to note any Biblical error and alert others.
I wonder what excuses she/they will conjure up when June comes and goes, if we are still here? Actually rg, that is so typical of SDA's repeated date setting history. Keep keeping away, we all need building up not more confusion and agro.

Wary EI Sue -
(now if that ain't confusing enough)

JaredMithrandir said...

In response to your Cons for the post Millennium view.

1&2. First their not actually the same Continuous prophecy, only Revelation is the entire Book one continuous vision, which I believe partly exists to tell us when OT prophecies given much more randomly take place.

But also, I disagree that Ezekiel 40-48 is the Millennium, I view that as being the Eternal Kingdom, their parallels to Revelation 21 and 22 is far greater then to Revelation 20.

3. Both mention Fire from heaven, nothing here says ever molecule is incinerated.

4. We really have no clear indicator how much time separates the End of the Millennium proper and the actual White Throne Judgment. But every body Resurrected was buried, so same battle or not, I still believe those bodies need to be Buried in Revelation 20.

5. Same 4 partly. The Weapons and destroyed and peaceful instruments are made from there, that's what the Eternal State is about.

6. Revelation I believe tells us when things happen. the other Prophecies give more detailed accounts. Ezekiel lists nations from each Cardinal direction, there fore it fits.

7. This is really pointless, the battle is clearly over the Entire nations.

8. Not everyone agrees on what you think Ezekiel 38 and 39 describes. In fact many see it as clearly following 37, were they have been restored to Obedience.

9. Same as 8

10. Your being completely nonsensical. For one thing Luke 21:24's "Times of the Gentiles" is about the Church age.

11. Again, I go back to what I believe the purpose of Revelation is. it's similarities to other passages are not superficial, it explains how everything else fits together.

I recommend Chris White's study on Gog and Magog though I don't agree with every detail.