Thursday, April 8, 2010

Interesting Bible Prophecy Questions

Nathan JonesPDFBy Nathan Jones

As Web Minister for Lamb & Lion Ministries, I get to reach out through the Internet to people all over the world. What a great opportunity to share with them the saving news of Jesus Christ and the hope-filled message of His soon return. I feel greatly blessed to be able to serve the Lord in this capacity!

My virtual pulpit in getting the message out has been primarily through our ministry's website at Also, we have other online venues such as "The Christ in Prophecy Journal" blog at It exists to give a daily dose of Bible prophecy, where each article is enhanced by the various ideas and opinions of those who add their comments. I also interact on our "Christ in Prophecy" Facebook group at, where over 1,000 people contribute articles, ideas and discussions concerning the soon return of Jesus Christ.

Our ministry has had a number of requests that we begin tweeting through Twitter as well. Should enough interest be shown and we get some followers, Twitter would be a unique avenue for alerting people about current events fulfilling Bible prophecies. Anything else and I doubt anyone would be interested in tweets on what Dr. Reagan or I had for breakfast. (Did I only have OJ? So boring I forgot.)

This Web Minister's primary ministry function is answering the many questions concerning Bible prophecy that come in through all of our various electronic venues. The main avenue of question submission comes by email.

I get sent some really thought provoking questions and just love the questions that I get. And, sometimes I get some very "interesting" questions, if you know what I mean. For those of you who would be interested in reading some of the more "interesting" questions, continue on below.

While I go through these, think of how you would answer them. (Now, if any of you wrote in with these particular questions, I apologize ahead of time!)

1) "Will getting the vaccine for the swine flu cause me to become demon possessed?"
I answered, "Yes, it will!" No, not really, but it was tempting. If you need an answer — no, it will not. Jesus might have cast the legion of demons into the pigs (Mk. 5:1-20; Lk. 8:26-31), but a little deviled ham, or in this case a flu named after swine, will not cause one to become demon possessed. Not being saved and so indwelt by the Holy Spirit while opening oneself up to satanic influences are what opens the door to evil spirits entering one's life.

2) "Is Obama the Antichrist? After all his name can be found in the Bible."
What?! Supposedly if you mess around with the Hebrew words that sound like Barack and Obama, then yes, his name is in there (more info). But, no, I don't really think that Obama is the Antichrist. He could maybe become one of the 10 kings who give their kingdoms to the Antichrist one day, but he does not qualify as the Antichrist for a number of reasons, specifically his origins.

3) "You are always saying this is the season of the Lord's return, but you never tell us what season it is. Is it Fall, Winter, Spring or Summer?"
Using the word "season" to explain the timing of the Lord's return just means the age or the time period it will be in. I wish I knew which calendar season and even the day of His return, but I don't, and can't tell you what season it will be in. I like summer though.

4) "Will my cat be raptured to Heaven with me?"
Admit it, half of you reading this believe that your pets will be raptured to Heaven. It is a sensitive subject and I have made enemies for saying, "I just can't see fluffy flying paws extended through the sky." But, I've been known to be wrong. I know half of you are going to send me hate mail for even suggesting such a thing, but I am ready for you (see Pets in Heaven? 3 Views: No).

5) "Will Iran drop an EMP bomb and wipe out all the electricity in the US? I don't want to miss you show 'Christ in Prophecy.'"
Isn't that great?! Our ministry needs more people like that. The refrigerator is out, they have no power, but they are worried about missing the show. That is a true fan!

I'll save the final "interesting" email question for my next writing. I hope you enjoyed this break from the serious side of Bible prophecy, and it answers the question "What exactly does Nathan do all day long?"

Keep those questions coming!


Billy said...

I admit a BIG part of me wants to believe Obama is the antichrist. I found that video fascinating though I have no idea as to it's accuracy on interpreting the words.

I can see where people may think he is the antichrist since he fits a lot of the description.

He has a Jewish false prophet named Rahm Emanuel. Perhaps another clue as Emmanuel means "God with us". Curious this would be the name of Obama's Jewish right hand man.

I'm not saying Obama is the antichrist but I'm not ruling it out 100% either.

Anonymous said...

I just saw a Newsmax article on that slick used car salesman Joel Osteen.

The funny part of it is there is a depiction of a bull that looks similar to the one used by the E.U. as it's logo (the bull with the harlot on it's back) and it is pointing/looking right at Osteen.

hartdawg said...

that`s funny, anon. the 5th question about iran is actually a valid one.

son of thunder said...

I just watched the Newsmax video, and the only things missing from the Joel Osteen "infomercial" is him waterskiing, leaning against a Lamboughini in front of his huge mansion, and drinking something with a little paper umbrella in it on a beach in the Bahama's.

You too can be excessively wealthy if you follow his 7-step rags-to-riches program.

hartdawg said...

i have a suggestion, if i may. sometime in the future i`d love to see maybe a 2 part series where you and reagan go to your inbox and answer a handful of questions on t.v. not based on any particular topic or anything, just answer as many questions as time would allow. i`d love to see what kind of questions people have. (just dont use any of my questions)

Nathan Jones said...

Good suggestion, Hartdawg! Q&A are always a very popular time at our conferences. We have a number of Q&A shows posted for your viewing pleasure on our Programs page.

Anonymous said...


Even if Obama isn't THE antichrist, he definitely has a spirit of antichrist!

I enjoyed this blog entry! Looking forward to tomorrow's :)


Mitchell said...

Hey Nathan, if you ever get any post-trib questions, feel free to e-mail them to me and I'll be more than happy to provide you with the post-trib response. I think it's a good idea that a post-tribber like myself offer answers to questions about the post-trib position. :)

Nathan Jones said...

I'll just post my answer and forward the questioner to here, Mitchell, so they can read your inevitable doctrinal thesis comment! ;)

Billy said...

In the vernacular of "Peanuts":

"Happiness is...Being Pre-Trib."

Post-Tribbers have a lot in common with Catholics. They both feel the need to go through a purgatory. The Catholics want it after death and the post-tribbers want it before death.

Either way, they deny that the blood Christ shed on the cross is all that's needed for salvation.

Mitchell said...

Billy said, "Post-Tribbers have a lot in common with Catholics. They both feel the need to go through a purgatory. The Catholics want it after death and the post-tribbers want it before death.

Either way, they deny that the blood Christ shed on the cross is all that's needed for salvation."

If you really believe that then you've been misinformed brother Billy. Can you explain why you believe this?

Please have a look at the following 'music video'. It gets difficult to watch at times, but we need to be aware of what is happening right now, and how this is spreading daily.

Click Here.

The Church has experienced tribulation since the death of Christ. There are more than 26 million documented cases of martyrdom in the 20th century alone. More than in the prior 1,900 years combined. Close to 165,000 Christians are are killed every year, and this number is growing. More than 250 million Christians in over 60 nations are currently living under the threat of persecution. 60% of these are children. Christians are even being beheaded today in Islamic nations simply because they are Christian and they refuse to reject Christ. Where is their pre-trib rapture? Are they already going through their own "purgatory"? Do you believe that they all deny the blood of Christ because they understand that there is no pre-trib rapture?

hartdawg said...

billy, i am a very firm believer in a pre-trib rapture, but i disagree with the notion that "posties" deny the blood of jesus is enough for salvation. one of my mentors, and one of the Godliest person i know, who also looked at me as part of the family, whose place i go to for thanksgiving, easter and other times is a postie. tho i disagree with his eschatology i happen to know he`s a very Godly person and i agree with him on most other things and he believes firmly the shed blood of jesus is enough.

Billy said...

Mitchell said "The Church has experienced tribulation since the death of Christ."

I was talking about THE tribulation, not in general. Big difference.

Mitchell said "There are more than 26 million documented cases of martyrdom in the 20th century alone."

I say that's what the post-tribbers crave - martyrdom.

Mitchell said "Where is their pre-trib rapture?"

Again, apples and oranges. You can't compare any historical event of today to the scope of what is to come in the tribulation. Yes, Christians are subject to horrible fates - but they are a walk in the park compared to what is to come. And NONE of this they are going through is the WRATH OF GOD. Another big difference.

Finally, the bulk of your reply was all about martyrdom, suffering, persecuation, etc. That proves my point (to me anyway). Post-tribbers are obsessed with these things. They want to prove they are worthy of Christ's salvation by THEIR suffering.

Pre-tribbers, in contrast, are hopeful and happy in knowing the Lord will snatch us up and let us ESCAPE "the" Tribulation. We don't want to be martyrs. We don't need to prove we are worthy of grace, we aren't.

We will never agree so I'll say no more (in these article comments) but feel free to have the last word.

Mitchell said...

Billy says, "Again, apples and oranges. You can't compare any historical event of today to the scope of what is to come in the tribulation. Yes, Christians are subject to horrible fates - but they are a walk in the park compared to what is to come. And NONE of this they are going through is the WRATH OF GOD. Another big difference."

Of course we can compare. You are assuming that the scope of the great tribulation is over every square inch of land where Christians will be running away from the axe-swinging Antichrist police with guillotines on their backs, and you are assuming that the "tribulation" is the wrath of God that we as believers are promised deliverance from, but both of those assumptions are unscriptural. For example, let's look at what the text is really saying. First, here are the verses that the pre-trib position loves to quote:

1 Thess 1:10, "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

1 Thess 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

Romans 5:9, "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

Eph 5:6, "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

Now let's learn the intended meaning of each of those verses:

1 Thess 1:10, -- The wrath that we will be delivered from is the Greek "orge" (G3709).

1 Thess 5:9, -- The wrath that we are not appointed to is the Greek "orge" (G3709).

Romans 5:9, -- The wrath that we are saved from is the Greek "orge" (G3709).

Eph 5:6, -- The wrath upon those who are disobedient is the Greek "orge" (G3709).

The words translated as "wrath" are found 13 times in Revelation from the Greek words "thymos" and "orge", however the "orge" of God that we are promised deliverance from is only found six times. Each time "orge" is used it is in a post-trib context:

1 and 2. It is mentioned AFTER the cosmic signs and the revealing of Christ Jesus (Rev 6:16-17). Jesus tells us in no uncertain terms that these signs happen immediately AFTER the tribulation (Matt 24:29).

3. It is found AFTER the SEVENTH trumpet (Rev 11:18). (When the 7th and last trump begins to sound we find the rapture described in Rev 10).

4. It is used to describe the final torment of unbelievers in hell (Rev 14:10).

5. It is found AFTER the SEVENTH bowl (Rev 16:19). (The trumpets and bowls are separate descriptions of the same events. The trumpets are the cause, the bowls are the effect).

6. It is used in connection with Christ's Second Coming (Rev 19:15).

The "orge" wrath of God is not found anywhere in the text before the Second Coming of Christ in the Book of Revelation. It is post-trib only. Therefore, even if the rapture does not happen until after the tribulation, we are still saved from the "orge" of God as promised.

-- Continued

Mitchell said...

Some incorrectly assume that the "thymos" and "orge" wrath mean the same thing, however if that were the case then why did the Holy Spirit inspire the writers of the New Testament to use them both, and at times both words in the same sentence? Though they will have similar meanings they must, therefore, be qualitatively distinct.

Here are some examples of where they are both used in the same verse:

Col 3:8 - "But now ye also put off all these; anger (orge), wrath (thymos), malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth"

Rev 14:10, "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath (thymos) of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation (orge); and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb"

Rev 16:19 - And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness (thymos) of his wrath (orge)."

thymos - sudden passionate anger; anger boiling up and subsiding again

orge - deliberate anger; indignation; hostile vengeance

When we read about the "thymos" in Revelation it is referring to the trumpet/bowl judgments. Those upon whom the bowls of "thymos" are being poured are still given the opportunity to repent, but they refuse. When the "orge" wrath comes, there is no such provision for repentence. This is the Day of the Lord -- His Divine vengeance -- which is post-trib only.

Why is this "thymos" called the "bowls" of wrath? Look at it this way (and this may be one reason why John describes them as "vials" or "bowls") -- as each bowl is being poured, the "thymos" subsides as it is nearly completed. However, because the people of Antichrist refuse to repent and their continual rejection of God, their continual persecution of the saints, their murders and idolatry, another "bowl" is poured, and another, and another... but they still refuse to repent. Once the bowls are nearly completed they will soon find themselves under the "orge" of God where His vengeance allows no provision for repentance.

Every time in Scripture we read that we as believers are not appointed to wrath, or will be delivered from wrath, it is always the "orge" of God, and it is only found in a post-trib context each time we see it in Revelation (Day of the Lord/Lake of Fire). In this "orge" the anger will not subside, it will not abate. The punishment will be continual for it is not a punishment to chasten and invoke correction (like thymos). Unlike "thymos", when the "orge" of God comes it is then too late.

Mitchell said...

Billy says, "Finally, the bulk of your reply was all about martyrdom, suffering, persecuation, etc. That proves my point (to me anyway). Post-tribbers are obsessed with these things. They want to prove they are worthy of Christ's salvation by THEIR suffering."

I fail to see how you can deduce an awareness of what is taking place in this world against the Church into something that we are "obsessed" with. Can you please explain your logic that brings you to this conclusion, when all that I am doing is remembering what Hebrews 13:3 tells us to do: "Remember those in prison as if you were their fellow prisoners, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering."

Billy says, "Pre-tribbers, in contrast, are hopeful and happy in knowing the Lord will snatch us up and let us ESCAPE "the" Tribulation. We don't want to be martyrs. We don't need to prove we are worthy of grace, we aren't."

Can you show me where I have ever said that Christians need to "prove themselves worthy of grace", or that I want to be a "martyr"? We are worthy of nothing but judgment, but are justified by grace through faith alone.

Are you aware of what the "escape these things" refers to according to Luke? Hint -- it is not a pre-trib rapture.

Are you aware of what it means to "meet" the Lord in the air and forever being with the Lord? Hint -- it does not refer to going to heaven in a pre-trib rapture.

Do you know what the "blessed hope" really speaks of? Hint -- it does not speak of a pre-trib ratpure.

I won't address all of these here (unless someone asks), but let me address the "blessed hope" only.

The pre-trib position pionts to Titus 2:13 and claims that the "blessed hope" is a pre-trib rapture. But where does the text ever say that? Let's look at the word "hope" in Titus chapter 2 and you'll quickly discover that the "blessed hope" is not even referring to the appearing of Christ.

Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7, "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began ... Looking for that blessed hope, AND the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ... That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

The blessed hope is eternal life. Moreover, the appearing of Jesus Christ in Titus 2:13 is called His "epiphaneia" (G2015) in the Greek text. It is not even referring to any "pre-trib rapture" because this is when it takes place:

2 Thess 2:3-4,8 "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God... And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance [epiphaneia G2015] of his coming."

It is post-trib only brother Billy.

2 Tim 4:1, "I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing [epiphaneia G2015] and his kingdom"

Anyone who wants to believe that the blessed hope is referring to the "glorious appearing" of Jesus Christ must therefore also believe that the rapture is post-trib.

Blessings ...

Billy said...

Dawg said "but i disagree with the notion that "posties" deny the blood of jesus is enough for salvation."

Realize I was painting with a very broad brush. Of course not all (many none) posties fall into my line of thinking.

But, in general, from someone (me) with a PRE-TRIB POINT OF VIEW who believes in the pre-Trib rapture as Gospel, and who can not understand or comprehend the thinking of those with an opposite view, since I believe it as Gospel, I have a certain viewpoint (right or wrong) of posties.

That's all I was expressing in as honest a way as possible. We all have certain viewpoints. Whether or not they have any validity can be debated but that is the fun part of all of this.

No offense intended to anyone.

And Mitchell...I do agree whether pre or mid or post, we will all be together at the end :)

Billy said...

My line (many none) should've read (mayber none).

Expected Imminently said...

For the sake of those confused by this oft repeated diatribe of dear old Mitchell’s, in John 16:33 Jesus said “…In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” Jesus made it plain that the Church will have tribulation in this world. I can personally vouch for the truth of that statement!

As Billy has clearly stated, the context of this tribulation (small ‘t’) is not THE Tribulation, definite article and capital ‘T’ for the noun of a specific event described in Daniel 9:11 as the 70th Week or in Jeremiah 30:7 known as “The Time of Jacob’s Trouble”; a clearly defined period of time divided into two lots of 3 ½ years = 7 years; the latter 3 ½ years know as GREAT tribulation, it is as Billy said, a time of WRATH, and we are assured that the Church is not destined for wrath of ANY variety.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1Thess1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1Thess.5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

It is in Matthew 24:29 that Jesus uses the definite article while describing this specific time slot as THE Tribulation which will be a time of trouble the world has heretofore never experienced, not even the Nazi holocaust will compare. Matt.24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

(God refers to the Jewish nation as ‘Jacob’ when they are out of fellowship with Him and under His judgment, and as ‘Israel’, when they are being spiritually obedient).

Just to remind Nathan’s crew that Mitchell uses an allegorical interpretation and believes Israel is the Church in the Old Testament and the Church is Israel in the New Testament, meaning circular reasoning and his plenteous straw man arguments will be repeated ad nauseum. ;)

Also don’t forget that Alan informed us of the inaccuracy of Mitchell’s understanding of orge and thlipsis in the Greek.

Anonymous said...

Hey Nathan...have you or will you do any blogs on the difference between Historic premillennialism and Dispensational premillennialism? Before today, I had never heard of Historic premillennialism! I'd like to learn more!



Expected Imminently said...

I set myself to try and understand the definition of the two Greek words for ‘wrath’; orge and thymos. Obviously it needs to be checked, but I have satisfied myself that many scholars tried, like Mitchell, to make clear and distinct meanings of the two words and failed. Effectively deciding they were ‘two sides of the same coin’ (my description). It’s heavy going but anyone can check this at the Blue Letter Bible site.

Richard C. Trent

My condensed version.

thymos and orge are found several times together in the N. T. (as at Rom. 2:8; Ephes. 4:31; Col. 3:8; Rev. 19:15); often also in the Septuagint - - not always in juxtaposition, but one is dependent on the other;t hus thymos taes orges (Rev. 16:19; cf. Job 3:17; Josh. 7:26); while orge thymos does not occur in the N. T., it is frequent in the O.T.(2 Chron. 29:10; Lam. 1:12; Isai. 30:27; Hos. 11:9). On one occasion in the Septuagint all the words of this group occur together (Jer. 21:5).

After a great deal of historical consideration, the two words settled down to mean the strongest of all passions of anger. Grammarians and Philologers spent a lot of time trying to distinguish between the two words. Where they were used equal to one another, they could not be recognised as one from the other, but they could not be used as equal on every occasion.

In certain grammatical circumstances, Thymos can be compared with the Latin ‘fumus’ the turbulent, boiling of the emotions that can eventually subside and disappear OR settle down into orge which is an abiding, long lasting, anger with the intention of revenge.

Both Aristotle and Origen described both thymos and orge as the ‘anger of young and old men’ Together the two words describe the full spectrum of anger that anyone can ever feel. With God’s wrath sometimes flaring up violently, then subsiding (anger of young men) then goes into the long term brooding intent on revenge (the anger of old men, holding a grudge). In the Revelation, it describes God’s wrath covering the full range of emotions available to express anger without distinction. Imo

Anonymous said...

Good discussion. Great posts, EI. Has anyone got the foggiest as to what's happened to Doc NoFog?


Expected Imminently said...

Hello ~R
The following site should help.


Nathan Jones said...

I'd be happy to, RG, but don't want you to have to wait. Check out End Time Viewpoints.

DrNofog said...

rg said...
"Good discussion. Great posts, EI. Has anyone got the foggiest as to what's happened to Doc NoFog?"

Well at least someone was concerned about me... Thanks rg!

- Had to do a few days in the hospital 'cause the BP went thru the roof, stress from being outta work for a while...amongst other things in the mix...
So I'm running about a week behind - I was playing a little catch-up on an older post with one of Mitchell's 'elastic' opinions: "In my opinion, it is not literally "all" nations on the planet"

Anonymous said...

Thank you Nathan!!!


Anonymous said...

Oh...and E.I...I read Got Question's article the other day. That is where I first heard about it and that is why I want to know more :) I love Got Questions Ministry!

God Bless!


Anonymous said...

Good to see you back, DrNofog. Sorry to hear about the BP and stuff.

Keep the diet sodium low. But I suppose you've already been lectured to.


Expected Imminently said...

I should have come here first - glad you are back. hug.
Do you have 'Lo Salt' in the U.S? If so, my Doc told me it is no good either. Less, using SEA Salt is best apparently?

Actually after your 'battle royal' combating Mitchells posts, I am not in the least bit surprised your B.P. went up - mine did too!

son of thunder said...

My wife's doctor recommended sea salt (which is way better than regular table salt) for her BP, which I'm sorry to hear about, DrNoFog.

I have a question, though, DrNoFog, that came to me whilst I was mowing the yard: What does DrNoFog mean? Is it a reference to one of the finest Bond villains ever, Dr. Julius No? (I think of weird things when I'm mowing)

Anonymous said...

Any salt whatsoever in the diet will raise the BP. Check the content of any cans of food or drinks you buy. I have friends who were on meds for BP and were able to go off them just by adjusting diet. High BP can lead to stroke.


Anonymous said...

Interesting discussion up until the sea salt detour. ;-)

I'm curious, how does a pre-trib view account for Revelation 20:4-5?

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

This is after the tribulation, and verse 5 says, "This is the first resurrection". To the open mind, these verses seem to scream post-trib, pre-mil, don't they?

Anonymous said...

To the “open mind” these verses would also seem to "scream" that the “first resurrection” occurs post tribulation, post 7th trumpet, post wrath of God and after the Beast and False Prophet have been dealt with.


DrNofog said...

Anonymous said...
"...until the thousand years were completed... - ...these verses seem to scream post-trib, pre-mil, don't they?"

I'm not sure here. Did you mis-speak? Did you mean Post-mil?... as it said "1000yrs WERE completed"???

My view, unless I have confused myself again [as is wont to happen on various occasions], is that the Word only speaks of 2 kinds of resurrections: 1. The damned, and 2. The redeemed!
Irregardless of any previous temporary 'resurrections' in the OT [and please NOTE that all were saints, NOT the lost], Only Jesus is, and declared to be "the first born" of this permanent, glorified immortality!

The raptured saints are then the 1st fruits of this typological kind.

And you will also notice that at the Goat/Sheep judgment that it is - - only the living damned that are consigned to Hades to await that terrible 2nd kind of resurrection!

The OT saints are the "full harvest" of this final typological 1st kind.

That terrible 2nd kind of resurrection will then happen at the Great White Throne for the final judgment, and disposition of the lost.

DrNofog said...

P.S. -A slight boo-boo... I am so used to listing things in Alpha rather than Numa... 'D'amned vs. 'R'edeemed... Should be: 1st Res = Redeemed, and then 2nd Res = Damned...

Expected Imminently said...

I am with you DrNofog - I think? I think my brain is a bit addled from over-think! Think over-load does it every time. Call it thinkitis, inflammation of the 'think tank'.:[

Posties do not understand that the 'first resurrection' is NOT just one event.

'The First Resurrection' is a TITLE given to the resurrection of ALL believers regardles of how many events of their resurrection occurs throughout history.

The last/ 2nd resurrection is of the damned and occurs at the end of the millenium when they physically enter into a christless eternity unable to die as 'death' is the last the die.

Did I make sense? I think I need a good dusting between the ears!

Anonymous said...

BTW EI & Dr NoFog, I agree that the 1st resurrection may be a type and not a one-time event.

I hear phrases like “plain and simple” when pointing to Rev 20 but these verses are hardly that for post-trib. I’ve read attempts to tie Rev 20 back to the 7th trumpet (why there unless you want it to be so?) and plain and simple suddenly morphs into theological presupposition IMO.

I was reading at another site where someone accused pretribbers of propping up the theory by “predisposition, extrapolation, hypothesis and superimposition on Matt 24.” It’s kinda ironic that someone can critique pretrib for a rapture prior to the trib because the text doesn’t mention it, yet teach that one occurs between the 6th and 7th seals where the text is silent. I’ve asked the questions and heard the various excuses.

In the end what they are really saying is, “Our “predisposition, extrapolation, hypothesis and superimposition on Matt 24” is better than yours.”


Expected Imminently said...

Nice one rg! Its a case of their one finger pointing at Pre, with three fingers pointing back at Post.