Wednesday, June 16, 2010

Revelation Chapters 13-19 Discussion Continued

The most frequently requested Christ in Prophecy television show episodes on Revelation have been pulled out of the vault and re-released!

Over the six episodes, Dr. David Reagan and guests Don McGee of Crown and Sickle Ministries and Dennis Pollock of Spirit of Grace Ministries go chapter by chapter through the book of Revelation, explaining that the book of Revelation isn't difficult to understand, rather it is difficult to believe. But, if you will believe it for its plain sense meaning, you will understand it. For anyone who's been born again and has the Holy Spirit residing within them, Revelation can become very clear.

We'll continue on in our journey through the great book of Revelation by getting our teachers back together to continue discussing Chapters 13-19. Feel free to watch, listen, or read along by clicking one of the icons below.

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Revelation: Discussion of Chapters 13-19

[Read Chapters 13-19 in the NASB version via Biblegateway.]


McGee & Pollock


The United States in Bible Prophecy

Dr. Reagan: Let me get to a very specific question as we move towards chapters 17 and 18 in our observations. Today, many books are being written, many articles being written, every time I go to a book store I see another one, saying that the United States is what is being described in Revelation 17 and 18, that we are that superpower that will dominate the earth and will be destroyed in one hour of one day. What about it? Do you think that Mystery Babylon here is the United States of America?

Don McGee: I don't think so at all. The United States does not fit the profile that we have here in Chapter 17 for several reasons. I personally believe that this is a religious system that John in talking about here, and though the United States is a great nation and has a lot of influence, we don't know what that influence will be like during this time. But, even if the U.S. would be a powerful and great nation during this time, it would not be the religious system that John is seeing here.

Dr. Reagan: Basically, what we have here is a religious system in Chapter 17, but we have a political economic system in Chapter 18. The two are welded together so that we've got all three. We've got political, economic, and religious systems that are dominating the world.

I think the reason so many people point to the U.S. in these passages is because they look at the world scene right now and they say, "Well, there's one superpower and that superpower is the United States of America, so this must be talking about the United States of America."

But, folks, this is talking about the end of the Tribulation, and during the end of the Tribulation we're talking about the worldwide kingdom of the Antichrist. His kingdom is the one that is going to dominate the world as no other kingdom ever has, because as we saw just a few moments ago in Revelation 13, he's going to control every kingdom, every nation, every tribe on planet Earth. This is something people have dreamed about for years, but have never accomplished. That's who is being talked about here.

I don't think Mystery Babylon is the United States. A superpower that's rising in Europe right now that's already eclipsed the U.S. in terms of numbers, economic power, and everything else is the European Union.

Dennis Pollock: I think there's a certain arrogance among many Americans that says we've got to be there somewhere. And so, they're looking here in Revelation and there and beyond, but it just doesn't fit.


Reconciling Jesus' Nature

Dr. Reagan: Over in Chapter 19, Jesus is portrayed there very, very dramatically and very vividly as returning in great wrath, pouring out the wrath of God upon the earth. In fact, in some places we're told that when He comes His wrath will be so great that the presidents, the prime ministers, the leaders of the world will all crawl into holes in the ground and cry out for the rocks and mountains to fall upon them. How do you reconcile this image of Jesus as a fierce warrior returning to pour out the wrath of God? How do you reconcile that with the image that we hear in church all the time of the compassionate, loving Savior?

Don McGee: We need to talk about God being a God of love. The world needs to hear that message. There are a lot of people right now that need to understand God loves them more than anything else in the world. But, God has facets to His character and to His nature. Love is just one of them.

Another facet equally important as love is the one that we call justice, and one of these days He is going to demonstrate that part or that facet of His character when He pours out His wrath on this world. It's not going to be like you or me getting angry at someone and pouring out wrath upon them because sometimes as humans it's unjustified or it's too much or something like that. Not so here. This is a fierce wrath and it's a justified, righteous indignation that God is going to pour out upon this earth which makes His wrath a lot different from ours.

Dennis Pollock: I hear people asking questions like, "How do you reconcile God's love with this idea of His wrath?" I'm reminded of what Spurgeon once said, "You don't need to reconcile two friends."


The Two Feasts

Dr. Reagan: In Revelation 19, we read about two feasts — one in Heaven and the other here on Earth. The one in Heaven is a glorious time of rejoicing as Jesus is united with His Bride the Church, but the one on Earth is a horrible scene of people being eaten by vultures.

Dennis, how can a person be assured that they will receive an invitation to that heavenly feast where they'll be the guest and not to this earthly feast where they'll be the meal?

Dennis Pollock: This is a party that you don't want to miss. It's the banquet of all banquets, and the feast of all feasts. It's a gathering of all those who have served Christ for the last 2,000 years. John Wesley will be there, Charles Spurgeon, D. L. Moody, Charles Finney, and millions of more ordinary Christians as well. But, the most important figure at this banquet is going to be the host — the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

There's a saying in this world that goes, "It's all in who you know." And, that's pretty much true here. To receive an invitation to that great wedding feast of Jesus, you have to know the Bridegroom personally. You have to know Jesus, not know about Him and not merely be able to recite the main facts of His life, but know Him personally as a result of being born again.

So, how do you get to know Him? You invite Him into your life. Jesus is such a gentlemen that He will never come into your life without your invitation. He knocks at the door, He speaks to your heart, but you have to invite Him in. That's why the Bible says, "to as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God." Receive Christ as your Savior. Invite Him into your life today. He's waiting for you.

Dr. Reagan: There's also a message for believers in these chapters of Revelation. It is summed up in the call to come out of Babylon. Don, what in the world does that command mean in practical terms?

Don McGee: I think it's a call for believers to separate themselves from the world, not in the sense of going into hiding or living a monastic life, but in rejecting the standards of the world. We are to be in this world, but not of this world. We are called to interact with people of this world, but we're also called to reject the standards and the values of the world. We're to be salt and light, standing for righteousness. We're to be ambassadors for Christ, but we are to keep in mind that this world is not our home, we're passing through. We're aliens in route to our eternal home with God. In the process, we need to be constantly checking to see if Jesus is really Lord of everything in our lives. Is He Lord of our music? Is He Lord of our television, our movies, our jobs, our money. That's what holiness means in practical terms.


In the next part on this series on Revelation, we'll get a glimpse into life living in Christ's Millennial Kingdom and rejoice at the final end of evil in Revelation 20.


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13 comments:

Mitchell said...

Dr. Reagan says, "... in Revelation 13, he's going to control every kingdom, every nation, every tribe on planet Earth."

In my humble opinion, this is not possible. If the Antichrist controls every kingdom, every nation, and every tribe on planet earth then how can "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues" (Rev 7:9) come out of the Great Tribulation (Rev 7:14)? In order to come out of the Great Tribulation, they had to be in it, and while they were in it Antichrist did not control them.

Moreover, if the Antichrist controls every kingdom and nation, then why are other nations waging war against him and why is he himself waging wars (Dan 11:39-45; 9:26)? How can even one nation -- for example Jordan - escape his hand (Dan 11:41)? And why is he so worried about news coming out of the east and the north (Dan 11:44)? If Antichrist were to control the literal planet he would not be having these problems.

Mitchell said...

Dr. Reagan says, "In Revelation 19, we read about two feasts — one in Heaven and the other here on Earth. The one in Heaven is a glorious time of rejoicing as Jesus is united with His Bride the Church"

A couple of comments for your consideration. Why is the feast (the Marriage Supper of the Lamb) only mentioned as taking place after the "great harlot" is judged (Rev 19:2)? This only happens at the end of the tribulation. Additionally, the "great multitude" is again mentioned here (Rev 19:6), which we are told previously as coming out of the Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:14). Why does John not show this marriage as taking place at the beginning?

Rev 19:7 declares that the marriage of the Lamb is come "and his bride has made herself ready." In Rev 21:9-12 we read, "And there came unto me one of the seven angels... saying, come hither, and I will shew thee the bride, the lamb's wife. And he ... shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem ... which had a wall great and high, and twelve gates... and names written thereon which are the names of the twelve tribes of Israel." According to Revelation 21, is the bride of Christ the New Testament Church, or is it Israel?

Expected Imminently said...

Yawwwnn! zzzz - Oh Mitchell, honestly, IF you will insist on another brand new form of 'progessive' interpretation, in spite of evidence to the contrary, you are bound to come up with yet another quirky notion - bless your heart, God love ya!

Speaking of 'another'. I felt stirred to check out the background of that church 'Solid Rock' I think, its in Ohio?

Their repulsive statue of 'Jesus' was struck by lightening and was burned to the ground! 'Another Jesus' was briskly eradicated by the REAL Jesus perhaps? Anyway, guess what, that church is 'Seeker Sensitive'; it is my hope it is a preview of coming attractions, when The Lord deals strongly with all this alternative christianity, and removes the blindfolds from the hoodwinked!

Mitchell said...

Hi EI, with all due respect sister that isn't an answer to any of the questions. If you claim to have "evidence to the contrary" then please feel free to comment accordingly. Blessings ...

Expected Imminently said...

Titter.

You still trying to bait EI you naughty 'ol Mitchell you. :)

Anyway, which way, I don't mind answering questions based upon the correct interpretation of the Bible. As no prophecy is open to a brand new form of 'personal' interpretation; it’s a total waste of effort arguing the toss.

Anyway, I’ve got enough trouble coping with the ‘Emergent’ version of the Scripture without coping with yours an all! :D

Mitchell said...

EI says, "As no prophecy is open to a brand new form of 'personal' interpretation; it’s a total waste of effort arguing the toss."

Then I guess you must have a problem with John Nelson Darby's personal view on dispensationalism and his push to promote the new doctrine pre-tribism. ;)

Expected Imminently said...

Mitchell said "Then I guess you must have a problem with John Nelson Darby's personal view on dispensationalism and his push to promote the new doctrine pre-tribism". ;)

I just looked behind myself to see if the other, fraudulent E.I. was standing there? Nope! It seems you are making assumptions on what E.I. reads. My neighbours are Plymouth Brethren, I expect they know to what you refer?

As I don't have the brains of a Bible Scholar, my understanding has to come from the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles written in The Bible using a normal/literal interpretation with good old fashioned 'common sense'.

I know what it is Mitchell; Sean has got cheesed off with your diatribes and banned ya; so your taking advantage of Nathan's tolerance attempting to catch a few unwaries again with your personal interpretation of God's Word. I gotta admit you are trying! ;)

DrNofog said...

EI Said...
I know what it is Mitchell; Sean has got cheesed off with your diatribes and banned ya;

"cheesed off"?!? Is that in any way related to the potency of Limburger cheese at all??

Sean banned Mitchell? When and where?
Sad... Those two have such an "on again, off again," love relationship...
I must of missed it but when did they kiss and make up after this one?

SeanOsborne said...
By the way, what 4-year college did you attend? I'll have to remind those I know to steer clear of it if your theological education is an example of what that institution has to offer.


I don't think he ever did 'fess up' to which college he went to, but again, it may not be fair to blame the institution. I've met a lot with degrees [and a cloud of confusion] where I scratch my head and say "where did you hear them say that, 'cause that's not what I heard them say?!?...
;-)

Expected Imminently said...

DrNofog said "cheesed off"?!? Is that in any way related to the potency of Limburger cheese at all??

You do make E.I. chuckle!

Can’t say I know ‘Limburger’, is it like our ‘Stilton’, that’s very potent with its blue mould running through it – yummy! If anything, it could refer to one of our local cheeses called “Stinking Bishop” – and oh boy, does it ever hum. Tasty though. “More cheese Grommit”?

‘Cheesed off’ means very bored, or annoyed with something; the same as ‘fed up’. Enough is as good as a feast, too much is worse than nothing at all.

Imagine the smell of really ripe cheese gone off in the warm. From a distance it looks edible, until you get a whiff of unpleasant reality, decide otherwise, and clear off.

DrNofog said...

Stilton type "cheeses get their blue veins from the saprotrophic fungus Penicillium roqueforti. Examples include Gorgonzola cheese of Italy, which is made from either cows' or goats' milk; and Roquefort, which is made with ewes' milk."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limburger_cheese
-Limbuger - "Once it reaches three months, the cheese produces its notorious smell because the bacterium used to ferment Limburger cheese and other rind-washed cheeses is Brevibacterium linens, the same one found on human skin that is partially responsible for body odor.
Limburger and its characteristic odor are a frequent *butt* of jokes and gags. In 2006 a study showing that the malaria mosquito (Anopheles gambiae) is attracted equally to the smell of Limburger and to the smell of human feet[3] earned the Ig Nobel Prize in the area of biology. [4]"

www.whatscookingamerica.net/History/LimburgerCheese.htm
Limburger actually smells worse than it tastes. [Well, that's a lot to give a go on!]
;-)

My mom & dad used to bring it home occasionally when I was a kid and it really is quite good, not as bitter as the Bleu cheeses as I recall but it's been years and who knows what I recall anymore.

My dad's favorite joke was this drunk whose wife threatened to lock him out if he showed up drunk in the wee hrs again, and sure enough he did, pounding on the door for her to let him.
She hollers at him thru the door "Yer drunk again!" - "No, Honey, I'm not, I swear!" - "I don't believe you...let me smell your breath. Put your mouth on the keyhole and blow..."
Suddenly, he remembers the Limburger sandwich in his coat pocket he bought earlier, just in case... He takes a bite, chewing quickly and blows thru the keyhole and...
She scream "I said yer mouth!!!"
;-D

Expected Imminently said...

Ace, what a hoot, my grandson will love that!

Ahem! serious note. We are not implying that good old Mitchell stinks! No way, God bless him!

However his Postie repertoire is tedious and IT does have a similar affect on peeps who do get cheesed off with IT!
x

Mitchell said...

Sean, lol, I keep him in my thoughts and prayers. :)

Mitchell said...

DrNofog says, "I don't think he ever did 'fess up' to which college he went to, but again, it may not be fair to blame the institution."

Read my replies, you might learn something. :) See here.