Thursday, December 2, 2010

The Divinity of Jesus: The Mormon Redefinition

Watch MP3 PDF

Who is the Jesus of the Mormons?

Lamb & Lion Ministries conducts a number of Bible conferences in the Dallas, Texas area each year. Our June 2010 conference theme was Defending the Faith.

Eric BargerOne of our guest speakers was Eric Barger, the founder and director of Take a Stand! Ministries headquartered in the Dallas area. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become one of today's greatest defenders of Christianity in America.

Eric's topic at our conference was "The Truth of Jesus' Divinity" (watch). He did a remarkable job explaining that Jesus Christ is truly God in the flesh as the Bible teaches.


The Mormon Jesus Is Man

Because Mormonism is so big in our cities and in our communities here in America, I want to talk about the Mormon Jesus. This may be the single most confusing version of Jesus that you and I will be faced with and have to make a delineation concerning.

Joseph Smith once said, "God himself was once as we are now, an exalted man." The second part of his declaration was, "We will become as God is now, a God." That is called the Law of Eternal Progression. That is the capstone of Mormonism, the idea that man becomes God and that God started out as a man. Joseph Smith said in his book The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, "You have got to learn how to be gods yourself and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you."

Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon Church, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." Mormonism teaches that God as Elohim physically had sex and impregnated Mary. Mormons claim that God himself has a body because the Scriptures speak of the lips, and hand, and eyes, and ears of God.

You know now this is the infinite God of the universe trying to speak to us with our little pea brains about who He is. He is trying to communicate to us in such a way that we will understand. And so, He uses the same kinds of things that we would understand: eyes, lips, hands and feet. John 4 Jesus says, "God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

I love it when Mormon missionaries come to my door. I usually get into this conversation with them. I ask, "Do you really believe that God was a man like me, and you will become a god like him?" They always reply, "Yes." These are usually 19 and 20 year old kids that have elder buttons on, claiming to be elders in the Mormon Church. They are on their two year mandatory mission out there preaching, because they believe if they don't go out and witness they won't get into the place in Heaven that they want to get into. They might not make it at all unless they're true to all the works of Mormonism, because they get on a treadmill of works.

I go on talking with these Mormon missionaries, asking, "Do you really believe that God has all these things: eyes, and ears, and so on?" They reply, "Oh, yes, it says in the Scripture the eyes of the Lord run to and fro beholding the evil and the good." And I say, "Yes, it does say that, but does that mean that He's actually got an eye looking? No, He knows everything, and you know He understands. He is the omniscient one. He is the omnipresent one. He understands those things. He lives in a different dimension." They'll again reply, "Oh, no, we are sure that God has a physical body." And I'll say, "Okay, turn with me to Psalm 91." And they will be looking through their Bible, and I'll say, "Just read it out loud."

I watched a poor kid just melt on my front porch a couple years ago when I had him look up Psalm 91. You know, though, I never want to get a cultist to the place that I am grinding him into the dirt. I want to leave their humanity intact. I let them know that I understand they are searching for God, too, but if they've got the wrong Jesus, oh, how wrong and how terrible it will be! And so, I care enough about them to tell them the truth.

Well, I had this young man open his Bible to Psalm 91 which reads, "He will cover you with His feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge." I asked to see their wings, these Mormon missionaries. They got the picture. They got the picture right away. You know that might be an avenue for you to be able to witness to those kids when they come to your door next time. Write that one down.

The Mormon Jesus is a spirit brother of Lucifer, I didn't say that, they said it. In Milton R. Hunter's book, he is one of the greatest Mormon authorities on Mormonism throughout time, it says, "The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." Evidently, there was a council of the gods and Lucifer wanted to be the savior of the earth, and they picked Jesus instead, and so Lucifer rebelled and he was cast out. That is the story about Lucifer and Jesus being spirit brothers.

The now deceased ex-president of the Mormon church, Gordon B. Hinckley, agrees with me that Mormonism has a different Jesus. Isn't that interesting? Speaking to a gathering of 6,600 Mormon missionaries in Paris, the L.D.S. Church News Archives reported on Saturday, June 20, 1998, that Hinckley does not believe in the traditional biblical Christ. The report said in bearing the testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke concerning those outside the Mormon church who say Later Day Saints do not believe the traditional Christ, he agreed. "No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak." It goes on to say in the report that he believes that the Mormon Church has revealed Jesus in a way to the world that no one has ever seen before, and they are the only true Church for this dispensation in time.


In the next segment of Eric Barger's sermon on "The Truth of Jesus' Divinity," we'll examine who the Bible says Jesus is as Creator.


Resource

Defending the Faith June 2010 ConferenceDefending the Faith June 2010 Conference DVD Album
Get back to the Word and the absolute essentials of the Christian faith by learning how to defend what you believe in this 6-part conference album!

  1. "The Truth of the Christian Worldview" - Brannon Howse
  2. "The Truth of the Bible" - Mike Gendron
  3. "The Truth of Creation" - Dr. Jobe Martin
  4. "The Truth of the Divinity of Jesus" - Eric Barger
  5. "The Truth of the Resurrection" - Dr. Ron Rhodes
  6. "The Truth of the Virgin Birth" - Dr. David Reagan

Order your copy for $25 today!

30 comments:

Expected Imminently said...

My children thought I had eyes in the back of my head AND were on stalks so I could see round corners! :)

Billy said...

This is important that people know this because people like Glenn Beck (a Mormon) go around proclaiming that they believe in Jesus but they never say what about Jesus they believe.

Alma said...

Dear Mr. Jones:

It isn't clear in this post if you're quoting Eric Barger, or if these are your comments; but I have to take issue with them. I assume that the source of these comments is Barger. The claims present a distorted perspective of what Mormons believe--and they include other claims that are just false. Some of the mistakes seem inconsequential; but it becomes very easy to build a false premise by tweaking enough "quotes."

By placing statements within quotation marks, a man asserts that he is accurately presenting the words of his source. What should I do when I go to the alleged source for the quote and find it has been modified? If someone feels at liberty to modify quotations, at what point does such a source lose his credibility?

Above, the article claims, "Joseph Smith once said, 'God himself was once as we are now, an exalted man.'"

While that's close to the actual statement, it isn't accurate enough to merit quotation marks. But the next phrase is even more surprising: "The second part of his declaration was, 'We will become as God is now, a God.'"

Would you be surprised to learn that that is not the second part of his declaration?--and that it doesn't appear anywhere in his recorded statements? How then can an author place it within quotation marks--or even assert that it is the second part of his statement?

There are so many errors in this posting that it would take many pages to address. Perhaps the most entertaining assertion is that Milton R. Hunter "is one of the greatest Mormon authorities on Mormonism throughout time." I have taught LDS theology for over 20 years in a college setting. I would be surprised if any of my current LDS students have ever heard of Milton R. Hunter. I know that I have never quoted him. I have a searchable database produced by the LDS Church for its university instructors. Out of source material from thousands of books, Milton Hunter is quoted only 11 times. Methodist Bible scholar Adam Clarke is quoted 3 times as often (33 times), LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie is quoted 894 times and Brigham Young over 1600. Why do you think Barger needs to pad Hunter's credentials?

Until they accurately present LDS theology, apologetics ministries aimed at Mormons will never be taken seriously--except by the hopelessly ignorant.

Billy said...

Alma claims that people were misquoted but then does not bother to offer the "correct" quotes in context.

Do you have something to hide Alma? No? Then please provide the complete quotes and let us decide if it really changes the debate.

Billy said...

Alma,

How about the following article on the Lamb & Lion website (The Tangled Web of Mormonism):

http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_cults5.php

...also full of errors/misquotes/etc?

Better yet, who do YOU say Jesus is, Alam? Is Jesus the Son of God? Was Jesus born to a virgin? Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins? ALMA...WHO IS JESUS TO YOU????

Answer this then perhaps I will consider that the portrayl of Mormons by this website are suspect.

Gideon said...

Alma,

Plain and simply Joseph Smith was a false prophet. The likes of which Jesus warned us of: Mark 13:21-23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look here is the Christ!' or 'Look there he is!' do not believe it.
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect - if that were possible.
So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

I'm sure you are familiar with the Book of Abraham that Joseph Smith translated in the 1830's. If Smith was truly a prophet of God, there would be no false prophecies, no mistakes regarding God's word, but that is in fact what occurs here. The Book of Abraham turned out to be the Egyptian Book of the Dead once the Rosetta Stone was translated, and these hieroglyphs were translated correctly, which proved Smith a false prophet.

Nathan Jones said...

The material in this series comes right from Eric Barger's presentation at our conference. It was later transcribed for television, and then because how people speak doesn't always translate into how people write, I've added punctuation to break up sentences and replaced pronouns with nouns as people tend to use pronouns more frequently. And, if a sentence structure is awkward because at times people change their direction mid-thought, then I'll flesh out the sentence some. So, use this as my disclaimer that the content has been modified grammatically for the written medium.

As to the information delivered in the content, that remains unchanged. Alma, I've forwarded your counterpoints to Eric who if he desires can respond here if anything grammatically needs clearing up.

In reality, though, I know it and you know it that Eric is correct that Mormonism is based on a lie. Just check the genetic records (see the video "The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon" by Living Hope Ministries).

I share this warning Jesus made in Luke 17:2 with all Mormons and JWs that show up at my door: "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble."

Please heed Jesus' warning in Matthew 7:22-23 and don't show up on Judment Day having Him say to you: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Alma said...

Billy:

If you'd like to check the quotes I cited, go to http://mrm.org/king-follett-discourse and you'll see that as I claimed, "the second part" doesn't exist. The site is not one that is friendly to Mormonism.

I read the article on the Lamb & Lion website and it has its share of errors, but it's not as bad as the stuff I challenged.

I say that Jesus is the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary, He died on the cross for our sins and rose again the third day. Before His birth He created the heavens and the earth. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the only means of salvation. Everything that the Bible says about him is a tenet of the religion of Mormonism.

Nathan:

Thank you for your reply. I'm familiar with the Living Hope Ministries videos and books and think that they are for the most part vacuous. When I first watched the video you suggest, I left a comment on it on another site. I haven't changed my mind since then: http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/ok-mormons-come-check-out-these/#comment-564 My comment is #24.

I'm not at all convinced that Eric's arguments are any better than those of Living Hope Ministries.

Billy said...

Alma,

Thank you for responding. All you state in your thrid paragraph is fine. But the problem is it does not stop there, does it? There's the Book of Mormon.

I browsed through the Book of Mormon online today. When I browse through the Bible I am moved by it and my soul truly feels fed by the Word of God. While browsing through the Book of Mormon I felt none of that. I only felt that I should stop reading this nonsense.

That sums it up for me. The Book of Mormon is NONSENSE. It is not written by divine authority or inspiration.

Eric Barger said...

Due to time constraints of the ministry, I'm not prepared to get into a running debate with you Alma but I am curious about your own beliefs besides the standard Mormon answer that “they believe the same thing that Orthodox Christians. As Billy stated, “There's the Book of Mormon.” Do you believe it inspired? What about “The Pearl of Great Price” and “Doctrine and Covenants?” I would also like to know where you are a college instructor and if you are a temple Mormon. Alma, if you are a Mormon then please just honestly state it.

You may sincerely believe that: “Everything that the Bible says about him is a tenet of the religion of Mormonism.” But Joseph Smith didn’t.

So the question remains Alma, is Jesus Christ’s sacrifice sufficient for ALL of our sins? Is faith in Him the ONLY path to salvation? Does Mormonism not teach that man can attain godhood?

Readers should be aware that Alma's approach appears to be a case study in modern Mormon tactics. In the early days of Mormonism if one had called a Mormon a “Christian” a street fight may have ensued. Now, led by the likes of LDS leader Robert Millet, the Mormon Church has for years been aggressively trying to market their religion as just a more enlightened version of Christianity. This subtle deception has seduced many into believing that Mormonism has changed. As, ex-Mormon elder Jim Spencer has so well documented in his DVD, books and website, Mormonism has NOT changed…only their appearance on the surface. Do not be deceived. If their Jesus isn’t the biblical Jesus then nothing else – including their religious tone or sincerity - matters. (II Cor. 11:3-4)

Here is the bottom line folks…Mormonism is indeed trying to portray itself as “Christian” but clearly it still holds to the teachings of the false prophet Joseph Smith and the three extra biblical writings (The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants).

Eric Barger
Take A Stand! Ministries
www.ericbarger.com

Eric Barger said...

Listen up folks…To attempt to discredit anyone who drags cultic teaching out into the light by nitpicking on points such as Alma has here is to attempt to divert people away from the facts. The fact in this case is that Mormonism indeed teaches that mankind can achieve godhood. Though Nathan’s addition of quote marks may have served to fuel Alma’s fire, I believe that my comments on Mormonism's Law of Eternal Progression at the Lamb and Lion Conference accurately reflected this unbiblical and cultic teaching.

To footnote my teaching at the Conference, here are the quotes that appear in and are footnoted in the Conference DVD.

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man …”
- Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith (10th Prophet of the Mormon Church), p. 345

“… You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you …”
- ibid, p. 348

As for Milton Hunter…if being an original member of the First Council of the Seventy (1945-1975) doesn’t make him an authority on Mormonism then I don’t know what does. Is his work still influential? When searching for “Milton R. Hunter” on Google today I found 66,700 entries. “Bruce R. McConkie” garnered only 42,200. Somebody is still quoting Hunter aren’t they?

Eric Barger
Take A Stand! Ministries
www.ericbarger.com

Eric Barger said...

Now, after a little digging, I understand.

Alma Allred teaches church history at the Latter-day Saint Institute of Religion at the University of Utah. He is a lifelong Latter Day Saint. He's been actively involved in the interfaith dialog which has succeeded in building unholy alliances between Mormons and Evangelicals.

After watching a lengthy interfaith discussion which included him it appears Alma is a very gentle and well thought fellow. He is also a staunch defender of Mormonism and obviously follows the Church's current stance of claiming to be but a more enlightened denomination. He skillfully skates around former LDS Church President Lorenzo Snow’s couplet “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be” and instead emphasizes the Christian doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. It’s like we’re all from the same big happy family with folks down at one end of the table just saying things a little different from those at the other end. I wish it was so but Mormon prophets have proclaimed their differences with Christians often. Thus, so must I with their beliefs and their counterfeit Jesus.

As harsh as it may sound it’s not what we have in common with the Cults and World Religions that should spur dialog. The issue is what we can NEVER have in common with false religious systems. On this God has been abundantly clear. Read the black and white instructions of Galatians 1:8-9.

Rodney said...

The sad part in all this is that Glenn Beck a professed Mormon has a very large audience and wide influence. I have watched many of his presentations attributing the present push for a Global Government as being comparable to the Biblical account of the Tower of Babel.

Though I can readily identify the dangers of Mormon teaching, the fact is, that while the Church is slumbering, it appears that perhaps our doctrinal enemies are being used to bring attention to Biblical Truth. In these presentations by Glenn Beck I have never heard statements attributed to Mormonism.

Those of us who do earnestly study the scriptures with an Eschatological perspective are now few in number as rampant and unchecked Apostasy has claimed many victims. That is the precise reason we must lift our voices above this tumult of doctrinal error and be a light in a dark world, carrying the torch of hope and faith only found in our Lord Jesus Christ.

When those we view as being in doctrinal error and of cultic origin are bringing focus to Biblical truths that we can agree on, we should be asking ourselves, have we failed to do what we were called to do? Though some may say that perhaps Glenn Beck is a product of a media conspiracy against the Church and Biblical Truth, I personally can not share that viewpoint.

bradlee said...

So I recently watched a documentary on The Gospel of Judas. It was interesting(mostly unbelieveable) but it did say that before the year 180a.d. there were over 30 gospels written and widely known among Christians. But in 180a.d. only one man decided that Matthew Mark Luke and John will be considered to be in this new collection of books(bible). So as a comment said "Three extra biblical writings" is the bottom line problem. I would think that 26 "good news" writings are missing too. The bible can't be the end, if it doesn't have everything, right?

Gideon said...

Notice Alma didn't address my comment..... There is no getting around that issue. Smith was a Fraud.

Nathan Jones said...

Thank you for your responses and counter points, Eric!

Bradlee, there were lots of extra-biblical texts written centuries after Jesus ascended. The books that didn't make it into the the canon of scriptures were because their authorship was questionable, they were known forgeries, their doctrine was so inverse to what the Bible taught, or they held no spiritual message.

Not one man, but various councils that met over the centuries after Christ sought God in much prayer and debate and decided on what books to compile into what we know today as the Bible based on this criteria, and books such as the Apocryphal books didn't make the cut.

I personally trust that God wouldn't have left out any book in the compilation process, as He wants us to know Him and accept Jesus' salvation.

Anonymous said...

What are the Gnostic gospels?


rg

Alma said...

Billy:

Thursday evening is the busiest time of my week so I wasn't able to get back to you until now. You noted that "the problem does not stop there...There's the Book of Mormon." Certainly that's a problem for people who have concluded that the only inspired scripture is contained within the pages of the 66 book Protestant Bible--but it isn't a problem for me because I don't subscribe to such a theory. I think that in itself is an unbiblical position.

You noted that you didn't feel right reading it and thought of it as nonsense. That's often the idea that people get when merely browsing through sacred texts. I've done much more than browse both the Bible and the Book of Mormon and know that they are not nonsense. You might want to consider 1 Cor. 2:14 in this connection.

I'll respond to others as I have the time.

Alma said...

Eric:

I'm surprised at your claim that it is a standard Mormon answer that "[we] believe the same thing that Orthodox Christians [do]." I don't know of any Mormon who would make such a claim. While there are some commonalities--and many critics of Mormonism make false claims about us--most of the time I've seen someone making such a claim was in response to assertions against those commonalities--not that our theology is consistent with so-called orthodoxy.

We realize very well that our theology is very distinctive and I'm happy to defend those distinctive doctrines. Generally, we have to start with such absurdities as having to defend our belief in the deity of Christ or our belief in the Bible. (such as the nonsense that Joseph Smith didn't believe the tenets of the Bible.)

Of course I believe that our scriptures are inspired--otherwise I wouldn't be a Mormon--a temple Mormon at that.

You claimed that Joseph Smith did not believe "everything that the Bible says about [Jesus] is a tenet of the religion of Mormonism." Would you care to provide any evidence for that? (Don't give me the 8th Article of Faith--Evangelicals hold the same standard as Mormons or they wouldn't use new translations or study Greek or Hebrew.)

You ask several questions about the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, faith and theosis. Since you claim you don't have time to get into a debate, a brief answer to these questions would be impossible--except for the doctrine of exaltation, or theosis. Yes, Mormonism does teach that the children of God can become Gods; and, we believe it is supported by the Bible.

You warn readers about my "tactics" with a demonstrably false assertion: that Mormons have ever rejected the term "Christian." That canard comes up all the time even though Mormon literature consistently refers to Mormons as Christians throughout its entire history. Our literature did condemned so-called "Christians" who supported the murder of our prophets and participated in driving us out of the United States.

Our efforts to market ourselves as "a more enlightened version of Christianity" began in 1830 and have continued unabated since that time. We have published newspapers and periodicals continuously since 1832 and if you doubt that fact, I challenge you to specify a year between 1832 and today and I'll provide you a published instance of a Mormon publication referring to Mormons as Christians.

Your bottom line is a false dichotomy: that acceptance of Joseph Smith or an extra-biblical canon is at odds with Christianity. It certainly conflicts with your perception of Christianity but it remains to be seen if your perception has any validity.

Expected Imminently said...

The Church ‘fathers’ DID NOT make the decision on what was the ‘canon of Scripture’. Scripture was already in existence and well known in the Old Testament from the writings of, at first, Moses followed by others inspired to write by The Holy Spirit. So these were known and accepted for generations.

Just as Isaac Newton did not invent gravity – gravity already existed and Isaac Newton recognised and defined it. In the same way, the early Church did the same thing.

In order to clarify and unify against detractors they looked carefully at Scripture and made some detailed analysis.

The result was a list of 5 rules drawn up to act as ‘canon’ that they noticed ‘locked canon in Scripture’.

A ‘canon’ was a unit of measurement – literally ‘a reed’.

1)Scholars searched for prophetic authorship.

2)Consistency of doctrine.

3)The authority of God.

4)Powerful in The Holy Spirit.

5)The book was ALREADY ACCEPTED.

It was not the Church that dictated the books were inspired. God had already shown them to be inspired. The Church merely formalised the fact. The Scriptures came first and the Church bowed to their authority.

Taken from my old Bible notes.

Alma said...

Eric:

Your information about me is a little dated. Although I was teaching church history when my book of review of Geisler's work appeared I teach other subjects as well including the Book of Mormon and the New Testament. I have not be active in interfaith dialogue and in fact was the faculty member responsible for shutting it down several years ago at the LDS Institute of Religion.

You apparently caught one of the discussions between me and Pastor Jason Wallace. They most certainly aren't designed to foster any interfaith alliances. Pastor Wallace's opposition to Mormonism is as pronounced as mine is to his Calvinism--and he would be astonished that someone viewed our exchanges as any sort of attempted alliance.

Alma said...

Gideon:

I didn't reply to your comment because it was a completely different subject than what prompted my comment on this blog--and I thought you weren't informed enough on the subject to warrant a discussion. (The Rosetta Stone was translated in 1802--three years before Joseph Smith was born and 40 years before Joseph Smith produced the Book of Abraham.)

Alma said...

Eric:

I missed one other item in my reply.

You wrote, "As for Milton Hunter…if being an original member of the First Council of the Seventy (1945-1975) doesn’t make him an authority on Mormonism then I don’t know what does."

You are exactly right. You don't know what does.

The council that Hunter was appointed to in 1945 began in 1836 and was renamed the "First Council of the Seventy" in 1883. Hunter was 109 years too late to have been an "original member" of that council. Interestingly, I did a google search as well and got 142,000 hits for McConkie and only 67,000 for Hunter. That still is far short of qualifying as is one of the greatest Mormon authorities on Mormonism throughout time" don't you think? I surmise that probably 12,000 of those hits are to p. 15 of his Gospel Through the Ages citation--probably anti-Mormonism's second favorite citation.

Gideon said...

Alma,

The Rosetta Stone was not translated in 1802. Yes, it was found in the early 1800's but not translated until 1850, and much more thoroughly in 1902,and a complete English translation wasn't available until 1904: http://www.encyclomedia.com/rosetta_stone.html

Besides the facts, your explanation of this stone being translated in 1802 makes absolutely no sense. There would have been no need for anyone to ask Joseph Smith to translate the papyrus. Let's say it was translated in 1802, even though the facts say otherwise, and Smith and the owner of the papyrus didn't know of the translation, then, this does not change the fact that Smith gave a fraudulent translation of a supposed, according to Smith, God inspired book. This makes him a false teacher, and no different than the likes of Edgar Cayce.

I would highly warn you about your religion. It is not the true way to Christ. Nowhere in the Bible is the Mormon church mentioned. The reestablishment of Israel is mentioned to occur in the last days, though: in Isaiah 66, Psalm 102, Ezekiel 37, etc. Read the scriptures now because Christ's return for his Bride is near.

You can't add to the Bible. There is no need for modern prophets because the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all that is needed, he is proof enough of God alone.

Billy said...

Alma said...

"...that's a problem for people who have concluded that the only inspired scripture is contained within the pages of the 66 book Protestant Bible--but it isn't a problem for me because I don't subscribe to such a theory."

I say that statement alone proves that Evangelical Christians and Mormons DO NOT share the same theology. The chasm is as wide as the one between Hades and Paradise.

Alma said...

"You noted that you didn't feel right reading (the Book of Mormon) and thought of it as nonsense. That's often the idea that people get when merely browsing through sacred texts. I've done much more than browse both the Bible and the Book of Mormon and know that they are not nonsense."

I say I've extensively read the Bible and only browsed the Book of Mormon. So, to compare apples to apples instead of oranges I say the following...

When I first began to browse the Bible I literally could not stop. I couldn't get my fill. I read it most all day for many, many days and was incredibly inspired and fed by the Word of God.

When I first began to the Book of Mormon, I had enough almost as quickly as I began. I found it uninspiring and had no interest in reading it further, especially after I got the part (not quite specifically but very much implied) that we can become gods or god-like or whatever.

So I stand by my opinions. The Bible is the Word of God. The Book of Mormon is nonsense.

Billy said...

Alma said...

"Yes, Mormonism does teach that the children of God can become Gods; and, we believe it is supported by the Bible."

I earlier posted that I thought this was more implied than fact but Alma himself has set me straight on that. It's true! They do believe that.

I amend my opinion. The Book of Mormon isn't nonsense...it's BLASPHEMY!

Anonymous said...

Gideon, you left out E G White.

rg

Billy said...

For all I've said about Mormonism...and stand by it...if my only choice to vote for President next time were Obama or Romney I'd take the Mormon Romney over the "Chrsitian" Obama.

Bradlee said...

Nathan, sorry, I forgot I wrote a comment and didn't come back to reply.
your comment, "I personally trust that God wouldn't have left out any book in the compilation process, as He wants us to know Him and accept Jesus' salvation."

on that note, I personally trust God, but problem is that men were the ones that put together the bible, and men make mistakes. Such as thinking one book is a forgery(or true!) or since the lost books mentioned in the bible were not around them, so they don't put them in.
Yes, God wants us to know Him, he also wants us to know of his Son, Jesus Christ. There is someone else, who does not and will do anything to do it.

Luke 22:3 "Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve."

Even a close Apostle of the Living Christ can be tempted by Satan to betray the Savior...and a personal friend. I find truth where it is, and it is not all in the Bible.
Have a great night!
bradlee

Nathan Jones said...

Bradlee, I'll always agree to the statement that the Bible doesn't contain the complete revelation of God. BUT, it does provide ALL the revelation that God wants us to have at this time.

The Bible is absolutely 100% all we need to know about God and how to be saved. It also is the litmus test to all things we may consider what is true. There's nothing more we need, and don't have to look elsewhere (like in the demon possessed rantings of Joseph Smith and Mohammed).

Frankly, since it takes a whole lifetime to just begin to understand the vastness of God in the Bible, I'm so glad there are no other books I'm needing to add onto the pile. :) Eternity will be our classroom.