Monday, January 31, 2011

The Muslim Antichrist Theory: Authors

Dr. David R. ReaganPDFBy Dr. David R. Reagan

The question as to whether or not the Antichrist will be a Jew or a Gentile has been hotly debated by Bible prophecy experts ever since the revival of the study of end time Bible prophecy some 400 years ago. In recent years the debate has taken on a new flavor by some who are obviously impressed with the resurgence of Islam worldwide. They have developed a whole new scheme of end time events in which one of the most prominent features is a Muslim Antichrist.

For those of you interested in pursuing this topic in greater detail, I would recommend that you consult two books and a website. The website is called "The Beast from the East." It can be found at http://www.beastfromtheeast.org/. The two books are Antichrist: Islam's Awaited Messiah by Joel Richardson and God's War on Terror: Islam, Prophecy and the Bible by Walid Shoebat with Joel Richardson.


Richardson and Shoebat

Richardson's book, which was published in 2006 is considered to be the cornerstone of the whole movement.1 It was picked up by WorldNetDaily and republished by them in 2009 under the title The Islamic Antichrist.2 WorldNetDaily has promoted the book vigorously ever since. The book features ten endorsements by various pastors, professors, and heads of ministries. Not a one is a Bible prophecy teacher or recognized expert on Bible prophecy.

Joel Richardson is a excellent writer who knows how to make a persuasive argument, particularly if the reader knows nothing about Bible prophecy.


Joel Richardson

Walid Shoebat's book is more detailed and is much longer (516 pages to Richardson's 276 pages).3 As most of you know, Walid Shoebat is an outstanding speaker on the topic of Islamic terrorism. But he is not a writer. His writing is very tedious and difficult to follow. Even worse, the organizational format of the book is chaotic and confusing. I can say without hesitation that his book is one of the most difficult ones I have ever tried to wade through in my lifetime of reading. To me, it was like trying to read and make sense out of the Quran!


Walid Shoebat

Although most of you are familiar with Walid, for those who are not, let me point out that he claims to be a former Palestinian terrorist.4 I doubt that few, if any of you, know anything about Joel Richardson. And it is difficult to find out anything about him because that is not his real name. He reveals that fact in the introduction of his book and then states that he uses a pen name due to fear of Muslim threats on his life.5

That revelation really turned me off because I believe that people who speak out publicly on political, social or theological issues should be willing to put their name to their words. It is one thing to use a pen name in writing fiction, it is another to resort to a pseudonym when writing nonfiction. It prevents the reader from being able to evaluate the credentials of the writer.

After reading Joel's book, I contacted him by email and told him I saw no validity to his reason for refusing to divulge his true identity. I pointed out that I had found a website of his on the Internet and that on the site he provides his speaking schedule. "If someone wanted to kill you," I wrote, "all I they would have to do is go to one of your speaking engagements and shoot you."

That prompted him to give me a call. He said it was not so much his life he was trying to protect as it was the lives of his family members. I told him I still could not understand his hesitancy in revealing his identity. I pointed out that I have written extensively on Islam, that I have posted the articles on the Internet, and that I have made statements far more inflammatory than anything I had read in his book. "But," he asked, "has you life been threatened?" I told him no. "Well," he said, "mine has been." Then, for some unknown reason, he suddenly told me his real name and asked me to keep it secret!

I took advantage of his call to ask him a question that had puzzled me ever since I had read Walid Shoebat's book. I said: "Joel you are an excellent writer. Shoebat's book is very poorly written, yet your name is on the cover. What was your contribution to the book? Did you do the research?" Joel responded by saying that he had written most of the book, but that when he got the manuscript back from Walid, "it look like it had been put through a blender." He said he tried to repair the damage, but again it was returned to him in a disheveled state. He said that at that point he gave up. He then added that Walid has now hired a professional editor to try to salvage the book.


In the next installment of this evaluation of the Muslim Antichrist Theory, I'll explain what Islam believes concerning the end times.


Notes

(This paper was presented at the annual Pre-Trib Conference held in Dallas, Texas in December 2010.)

1) Joel Richardson, Antichrist: Islam's Awaited Messiah, (Enumclaw, WA: WinePress Publishing, 2006), 276 pages.

2) Joel Richardson, The Islamic Antichrist: The Shocking Truth About the Real Nature of the Beast, (Los Angeles, CA: WND Books, 2009), 271 pages.

3) Walid Shoebat, God's War on Terror: Islam, Prophecy and the Bible, (Lafayette, LA: Top Executive Media, 2008), 512 pages.

4) Walid Shoebat, Why I Left Jihad, (Lafayette, LA: Top Executive Media, 2005), 412 pages. Shoebat's claim to have been a former Palestinian terrorist has been hotly disputed in several articles that can be found on the Internet.

5) Richardson, Antichrist, pages xv-xvi.

51 comments:

Expected Imminently said...

For one awful minute I thought Dr.Reagan had succombed to that hysterical flim flam! :¬\

Sue

son of thunder said...

Not Dr. Reagan, EI! He's the one who helped pull me out of that flim flam.

Rodney said...

Another refreshing moment courtesy of L & L Ministries. I only ask that we take the same method of critic for other newcomers such as Isralestine. Has Psalm 83 found fulfillment, does the exceedingly great army reference the modern IDF or is it identified as the whole House of Israel? Does the concept of a Greater Israel clash with known prophecies that identify clearly that Israel will not know peace until the coming of the Messiah Yeshua? Does the Prophet Joel identify that the Land of Israel will continue to be on the international auction block leading up until the time of Armageddon as recorded in Joel 3:2? If the time is taken to address this, I will surely feel refreshed.

Billy said...

Rodney,

It's sounds like you are a skeptic of the Isralestine / Psalm 83 concept. Well, I am, too.

All the years I've been reading material on end times prophecy I've never heard of the Israelestine idea - not even on Lamb & Lion (until recently).

Nothing has convinced me that this conqueroring of the Arabs is going to happen. Lets see...the entire world will come against Israel over who controls Jerusalem but that same world won't mind one bit when they take over all the Arab nations??? They'll let it happen without attack? And peace will reign in the Middle East? (Even for a brief period before Russia attacks?) True peace will never reign in the Middle East until Jesus reigns there.

Billy said...

Rodney said "Does the concept of a Greater Israel clash with known prophecies that identify clearly that Israel will not know peace until the coming of the Messiah Yeshua?"

This makes more sense than the Israelistine concept to me.

If Isreal can achieve peace without relying on Jesus then why will they need to call on Him to save them from complete annihilation?

Rodney said...

Thanks Billy, I am glad someone has been reading his Bible and does not base his knowledge of prophecy according to the many speculative writings that are now common today and unfortunately accepted as Gospel Truth.

DrNofog said...

Well Nathan,
This could be interesting...

Seems a year or so ago Dr.Reagan ran a series on this and mentioned a disagreement with JR and some Joel'ies got their panties in a bunch over it and wanted the Dr. to apologize, so I'm sure this will bring a few outta the woodwork for another go at it.

Unfortunately, I can't put my finger on the articles right now as that's on my other HDD that I hafta put back in my compuker that I'm trying to put back together.
[I had to boot the wife off her's so she's scowling at me right now. ;) ]

Nathan, since you're in the command chair, can you find the link since it's faster to search your HDD than for someone outside to search your website?

Billy said...

I just read some reviews on the Israelistine book on Amazon.

Let me say, though I am not convinced of the Israelistine idea, I in no way want to be associated with the kind of people on that site who wrote negative reviews.

One reviewer even goes after Dr. Reagan on a personal basis!

While I may disagree or not be sure of some of the Lamb & Lion content I support it 100%. I belive it is a ministry blessed by God. I believe it is necessary and needed in these time especially.

Billy said...

Oh, and I always say...I never claim to be right, I'm probably wrong a lot. But I just give my honest thoughts.

Nathan Jones said...

DrNoFog, the series and discussion with the "Joel-ites" can be found under January 2009. And yes, we've, um, heard from Joel. Interesting Silva's site is down, so this Muslim Antichrist Theory might now be a dead theory. We'll see when tomorrow's e-newsletter goes out and what feedback we get.

Billy, you're both our biggest critic and biggest fan. How that works, I'm just not sure. ;)

Rodney, Psalm 83's looking more likely than ever once Egypt and Jordan's governments fall to more radically Islamic elements backed by Iran. We'll have to watch and see.

Expected Imminently said...

Nathan and Dr Nofog

Sorry I don’t know how to do a link. There is some more a/c stuff.

25th August 2010 under Antichrist.

I remember it well and Bill Salus popped in to correct – somebody - ;)

Son of Thunder
:D x

Billy said...

Nathan,

I'm glad to know I'm your biggest fan (one of thousands I'm sure) but I shudder to think of myself as a critic. I just disagree sometimes (either because I think you're wrong, or I'm confused, or I know not whereof I speak, or I just got out of the wrong side of the bed, or (I hate to admit this) I'm just trying to get a string of comments going because I love to read everyone's thoughts on the articles you post).

And the lastest in Egypt and the region actually has me opening my eyes and thinking Pslam 83 could be happenening after all.

I grew up when the Cold War was still raging and I NEVER thought the Berlin Wall would fall. So Psalm 83 could slap me silly the same way.

Expected Imminently said...

Nathan
Billy likes to be honest - good for him. Can I be? but please destroy this post in thirty seconds if its inflamatory.

Mr W.S. is a fraud and a rogue. imo. :(

Gideon said...

All of you that are skeptical of Psalm 83 future fulfillment (how that works I don't know), how are you looking at what is going on in Egypt and Jordan right now? The Muslim Brotherhood has already said once they are in power it is war with Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Do you think that when Jordan falls their newly formed government (backed by Hamas) isn't going to want to side with Egypt and go to war with Israel?

How about Lebanon now fully owned and operated by Hezbollah?

Syria...it's been obvious what they want for years.

The peace experienced by Psalm 83 is a false peace, and we learn that in Ezekiel 38 & 39.

How do you naysayers explain the Valley of Harmon Gog being a part of Israel when it is clearly owned by the Palestinians right now? Or the fact that Israel is living in the center of the land in Ezekiel 38, which they are not currently, and the only way for them to do this is to expand their territory?

son of thunder said...

Nathan, it's an easy concept to be both a fan and a critic. Just ask a Chicago Cubs or Dale Earnhardt Jr fan!

Rodney said...

Gideon, you sound very similar to Sean Osborne. I formulate my own opinion based on facts, not conjecture or speculation. Psalm 83 is a prayer for divine intervention, not a conflict as proposed by Bill Salus. No Rabbi will recognize such a proposterous claim either. The context is obvious. The truth is found once one examines the possibility of such a conflict and the aftermath that would ensue.

Their would be no expanded borders of Israel, no security, no peace, and definitely no prosperity. All these claims are made by taking various scriptures not even related and incorporating them into the context of Psalm 83. That is not proficient, that is the equivalent of a grade school art class disaster. Sorry, can not support such a erroneous belief, I rather like it the way God has designed it, not as men seek to create their own prophetic events.

Rodney said...

Nathan, Egypt and Jordan are going nowhere. The people are crying for change because they suffer from rampant unemployment, inflated food and fuel prices, yet they are not a stupid people. Egyptians have embraced the West and will continue to do so, as well as their educated brethren in Jordan.

Sometimes you must listen to the people not the Western media hype, the military of Egypt as well as Jordan have been modernized by Western dollars, the wives and their children enjoy Western entertainment, still these proud people fight for real democracy.

They are tired of the status quo and growing poverty, yet they also know what to expect from and Islamic regime. The chances of the Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt and Jordan are slim at best, these are not ignorant people.

The Western media can only hypothesize of how the government of Egypt will take shape, yet it should be also worthy to mention that their opinion is not reliable considering this entire event took them by complete suprise. So before we embrace the hype and hoopla, lets consider the facts. Lebanon of course will join the Iranian regime simply because they are one of the northern enemies in which Gog and the multitude of Magog must pass through.

In case you are wondering, I too have an analyst background, my experience compells me to see the reality on the ground not consume myself in speculation nor media hype which includes certain Christian media as well.

Expected Imminently said...

Rodney
The intelligence of the Egyptian people is not the issue; rather satanic interference and God’s Sovereignty who will permit the deception to fulfil His declared plan and purposes to rid the world of all evil.

When a/c comes to power, the intelligent people of Israel, U.S, Britain, – will also be deceived.

Barnabas said...

I find the ad hominem flavor of the article a little offputting.

What difference should it make to Dr. Reagan or anyone if Joel Richardson feels he needs to use a pen name?

Also, I happen to know that Rodrigo Silva's site has been down since before this article was published. There is a notice on the 404 page directing people to his new website address. So I don't think one can hold that up as evidence of the decline of this viewpoint.

As brothers in Christ should we not argue these matters on their biblical merits rather than giving backhanded compliments?

"Well, Joel is a good writer and very convincing if you're biblically ignorant!"

Nathan Jones said...

Rodney, that the media reports nothing but the Egyptians (and Tunisians, Jordanians, Yemenese and others) locking arms and singing kumbaya in a bid for peace and democracy from their evil, tyrannical governments ought to be a big indicator that that is exactly NOT the situation in the Middle East. Once these governments are overthrown, the only result will be new governments ready to make war with Israel at Iran's prompting. That in an of itself is rather Psalm 83-like.

Interesting how quickly the Middle East has erupted, isn't it?

Gideon said...

Rodney,

Thank you for calling me a moron in a roundabout way. Your entire comment is based on your opinion... No facts what-so-ever! That is what you call hypocrisy. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why you get kicked off so many sites...

Rodney, I have a bachelor degree in History, and have been studying the rise of terrorism along with Bible prophecy for a very long time. Nothing I have stated does not have some factual basis to it. Educate yourself on a man by the name of Amin Al Husseini, and his vision. His dream is what is occurring as I write this.

Do you deny that Israel will go to war against Egypt again? How about Jordan? Lebanon? Syria?

Plain and simply, Israel will go to war with them. These Islamic nations are linking up to form a new Islamic confederacy. A confederacy with one goal, wipe out Israel.

Rodney, you stated the Muslim Brotherhood taking over is slim. They already have, Rodney. Mubarak is stepping down. Who do you think is going to fill his void??? Where is the funding for this coming from...Iran, go look it up. Hezbollah is running Lebanon, Hamas is running "Palestine," and causing disruptions in Jordan. Now, the Muslim Brotherhood (the original Terrorist group) is calling the shots in Egypt.

Gideon said...

Rodney,

Also, do me a favor and go read up on the riots and people involved with Iranian Islamic revolution of 1979. There were plenty of people rioting that wanted freedom. Go read what happened to them after the Ayatollah came to power...

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9

Eli Eli said...

The falling of Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey into extremist Islamic hands will complete the Confederate ring of united Anti-Israely nations circling around Israel to fulfil Psalm 83 prophecies. Attack on Israel from all directions will come soon. God will demonstrate his power in a miracle win for Israel.

Expected Imminently said...

Luke 21:23
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies; then know that its desolation is near.

I realise the context of these verses was in AD70 when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple – but I keep thinking the various comments are referring to these verses...

As Israel is virtually surrounded by her enemies, even the Med is filling up with them, I am wondering if this could still be counted as an alert to present day believers in the near future?

Expected Imminently said...

Rodney said “Psalm 83 is a prayer for divine intervention, not a conflict as proposed by Bill Salus”

It certainly is a prayer for divine intervention, from a conflict that has the specific armies mentioned that is interestingly different to Ezek 38,39. The Psalmist ‘saw’ what was coming to future Israel, and prayed in advance giving the details. Imo

This is what Tony Pearce of ‘Light for the Last Day’s’ London U.K.wrote about some years ago; which Bill Salus has since written about in Isralestine in greater depth.

I still have doubts over 'the walls' issue, but not enough to chuck the baby out with the bath water.

Anonymous said...

"I find the ad hominem flavor of the article a little offputting."

Yeah, there were things said I think were probably better left unsaid.

That said, I used to read the stuff at Joels Trumpet and it seemed to me that there was "ad hominem" aplenty happening there as well.

rg

Rodney said...

Let us take a reality pill for a moment, shall we! If there was a Muslim Brotherhood takeover of Egypt and the transportation of crude through the Suez became questionable, the naval might of the U.S. and European powers would be brought down upon them. This would eliminate the possibility of any unilateral moves by Arab parties to attack Israel.

If their was the possibility of the ending of peace between Egypt and Jordan with Israel, this would most certainly bring an increasing U.S. presence to ensure stability of the region also eliminating any planned combined Arab assault. Sheba and Dedan will remain allied with the West and the peace will remain, that is the truth.

I agree that Psalm 83 will find complete fulfillment, even beyond what Asaph could have known. The fulfillment of this prayer for divine intervention will culminate in the Battles of Gog/Magog as well as Armageddon a few short years later. The belief that the IDF will bring these enemies into subjection is however not based on truth. In both instances, it is the Lord God that intervenes to make His name known among the nations.

There is nothing found in Psalm 83 by itself to suggest an actual conflict nor a sustained IDF victory. To portray such a picture involves taking scripture out of context and super imposing unrelated passages, and enlisting speculation and sensationalism. Those that continue to hold on to such an eschatological fable evidently love the lie more than the truth.

Rodney said...

Gideon did lead Israel to battle against many enemies as they were given into his hand by the Lord. The interesting part of that journey however was that Gideon first put away all the detestable idols and altars to Ba'al, in defiance of the pagan priests and built an altar to the Lord God. This rivaled that of Elijah and the Prophets of Ba'al.

Psalm 83 identifies with Gideon, yet today in Israel it exists as a primarily secular nation with no spiritual head. In the time leading up to the rebirth of Israel, religious fervor ignited the people to settle the land, now these same settlers have become despised. Under these current circumstances Israel is vulnerable, without being linked to the Creator, any unilateral moves by Israel at this time would prove disasterous.

We have seen this clearly with the Hezbollah conflict of 2006 and the attempt to break the Gaza blockade through the floatilla. In each case, Israel was met with disaster and the military chiefs were viewed as incompetent, many were relieved of duty. This is why there will be no Greater Israel or expanded borders, and why Israel refuses to confront Iran head on. They too know without God, they would perish.

The nation must wait upon the Lord, they must seek his face and acknowledge the Lord God in all their ways. If they refuse to do so, they will know only sorrow and defeat. If Israel will return unto the Lord, the Lord will return unto them. The Lord God will make a swift end to their enemies, yet not for the sake of Israel, only for the sake of His Holy Name that is profaned among the nations.

Gideon said...

Rodney,

First and foremost, Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 are most likely the same events. Now, what do all the Psalm 83 nations have in common? They are all Islamic, AND they are Arabs that surround Israel. What do all the Ezekiel 38 & 39 nations have in common? With the exception of Russia, all the nations involved are Islamic, and non-Arab.

Now, since you say there is no fulfillment of Psalm 83, please explain how areas that are currently held by Jordan in Ezekiel 38 & 39 stated to be Israel in these verses come to be part of Israel without Israel going to war with its neighbors? How about the fact they are living in the center of the land, which means Israel would have to occupy lands that are currently Arab territory?

You simply won't address these questions because you lose the debate you have held onto for so long...

Rodney said...

The people do dwell in the center or navel of the land, the center has always been known as Jerusalem. In the ancient world Jerusalem was also depicted as the center of the globe. Jerusalem is the focal point of all prophecy related to Israel, including those making reference to those dwelling carelessly in the midst of the land.

The same reference is used by the Prophet Ezekiel describing the people being regathered and dwelling in them midst of the land, in Jerusalem. The destruction of northern confederation coming against Israel however will perish on the Plain of Bashan along the southern basin of the Golan on the Syrian side. The earthquake that occurs during the intitial battle will be centered in this area, this will also fulfill Isaiah 17, Damascus will become a ruinous heap.

This same earthquake will eliminate the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, paving the way for the construction of the Third Temple.

Rodney said...

Gideon, if I might reply, you asked me no questions, you only stated your belief that I was calling you a moron. I made no such reference. I have been kicked off several sites because the people running them do not have a defense for the fables they enlist and are embarrassed when someone does not accept it as truth.

To this day, there has been no public debate discussing the whole Psalm 83 debacle popularized by Bill Salus and his fictional title Isralestine and defended without end by Sean Osborne and his ilk. No credible scholars have accepted this eschatological fable as truth.
Hal Lindsey stands out as a leader in the prophecy circle and has not endorsed such unwarranted destruction of the clear scriptures.

Today there are many parrots and clones who agree with each other, yet there is no accountability for error other than the blatant garbage such as the Islamic AntiChrist.

Expected Imminently said...

Dr. David Hocking (Jewish) say's he wished he has written 'Isralestine' - and he is certainly no fool.

Professor Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum(Jewish) has also given it credit.

Jacob Prasch (Jewish) thumbs up!

There are many other scholars who have acknowledged Bill Salus' book. That doesn't mean every point is agreed with, but the concensus of opinion reveals its worth.imo.

As for a 'debate'; Bill came here and explained that to you - if I can find it, I shall post it.

Rodney said...

Like I said, no credible scholar supports such a fable. Bill Salus did not want to debate he clearly believes the content of Isralestine is sufficient enough. When you get Hal Lindsey and Grant Jeffrey on board, then you have accomplished something, I am positive that will never happen. The truth is, until coming across this site maybe 3 years ago, I never heard of Dr. Reagan.


Hal Lindsey and Grant Jeffrey were common names heard within the prophecy spectrum for years, the others you mention I never heard of. In any of the interveiws conducted by Dr. Reagan and others that readily accepted this fable, there was never any instance of debating the content. The belief that the IDF is the exceedingly great army of Ezekiel 37:10 yet easily proven erroneous with the following verse which identifies this army as the entire nation of Israel. The belief in a period of peace and a Greater Israel or expanded borders, which clashes directly with Joel 3:2. None of these were addressed, that is not scholarship, that is incompetence.

Any scholar not willing to defend the truth as it is presented in the scriptures, is no scholar at all, they exist purely as hacks, sampling off each other, parroting the work of others to avoid their ignorance being discovered. They however can not hide what is easily revealed.

Rodney said...

Chuck Misler is the one that got Bill Salus started, I am sure it was his hand that gave this man the walk through and ensured the endorsements to establish a marketing base. The problem with walking him through, he never considered the erroneous beliefs associated with the content. Once this is blown wide open, the credibility of the various scholars that have accepted this without debate will be exposed.

Rodney said...

Hal Lindsey will be soon attend a Prophecy Conference in Florida as well as others. I will do my best to approach him there and ask him to aid me in exposing this fable now being endorsed.

Anonymous said...

Salus' biggest error is that he says that Ishmael is only referring to Saudia Arabia. The Ishmaelites fill the whole region, including Northern Africa. Also, Salus says that Assyria is merely a reference to Syria. But the Assyria of the day when Pslam 83 was written included Iraq, Turkey and Iran.

Don't ever accept something simply because of who endorses it. Search these things out yourself an use your head.

Gideon said...

Rodney,

Please tell us the "scholars" that disagree with Psalm 83's placement. Scholars have been listed, and you state they are not credible.... I think you are holding yourself up to be a scholar, and you aren't.

Also, If I am getting what you are saying correct, you are stating that Damascus is destroyed by the earthquake in Ezekiel 38 & 39...??? If that is what you are saying, please go back and reread Isaiah 17 again.

Israel is not living securely in Jerusalem at this moment. Psalm 83 is the same event as Isaiah 17. Please go read the people involved in Psalm 83, then, go and read the history of the nations that founded the Arab League in 1945. You will find something that matches up... You can't call a scripture just a prayer when it made a prophecy that came to pass in 1945.

Anonymous said...

Gideon,

By Scholars that refute Salus, I would encourage you to read any Bibl Dictionary or Commentary. Salus claims that Pslam 83 does not include Iran and Turkey, but it clearly does. He claims it does not include the greater Arab world, but it clearly does. Unless you will argue that Ishmaelites only live in Saudi and the Assyrian Empire was limited to Iraq. But no credible scholar will agree with you. Think about it brother.

Expected Imminently said...

I can't help it, I gotta say it. I don't mind the shy soul who needs to be anonymous,or needs privacy but when a 'mouse' has a big opinion, I want to know when is that poster going to stop being a mouse and become a man?

I keep getting this itchy feeling we are dealing with yon JR and clones; and being a shrinking violet just isn't becoming to any man and he needs to sport a bit of gumption, even if it is just an initial.

Its like speaking face to face with someone wearing sunglasses, I want to see the whites of their eyes thank you very much.

Rodney said...

The truth should be evident that Isaiah 17 will find fulfillment in the initial judgement provided by the hand of God against the Gog/Magog coaltion. Their gathering is in the open plain of Bashan as identified in Ezekiel 39:5. This open plain if filled with ignesious rock, the nitrates formed a rich soil to which the cattle of that region were famous, called fatlings of Bashan.


This open plain is surrounded by the mountains in which the surface of these mountains facing the plain are blackened from previous volcanic activity. There are several dormant volcanic cones located in Southern Syria where this plain lies. This will be the gathering point of the Gog/Magog coalition. Syria is not only the terrorist hub of the region is is also host to the coordinated missile command structure, for Iran, Hezbollah, and Syrian missile forces.

E.I. the problem with your interpretation is that you believe at the time of this battle Israel will be a rest, dwelling peacefully, yet in fact the proper interpretation is that Israel will be dwelling carelessly, having a false confidence and false security. This is precisely why the Russian led confederation will view them as easy prey. The hebrew word used in this context is "betach" it holds dual meaning, the same word is used in the context of Ezekiel 39:6 in which God sends fire upon the nations that dwell carelessly in their seeking to divide the inheritance of Jacob.

The context of Isaiah 17 describes a time when the glory of Jacob will be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean. This denotes their once prominent military will no longer bear a resemblance to that of the past, their enemies will have found the upper hand. Israel even at this moment is in serious danger, having been surrounded by an umbrella of missiles and rockets that can reach all Israel.
When one reads Jeremiah 49:23-27, this leaves little doubt of not only an earthquake occuring, but the possibility of an accompanying tsumanmi. All the young men and the men of war will perish in that day.

Isaiah 17:7 identifies the source of the distress of Damascus, they will acknowledge the hand of God, this will not be an IDF operation, for the earlier verse, being verse 4, identifies clearly that Israel is unable to address or confront their enemies. The scenario presented by Bill Salus and endorsed by several scholars is false and is a grave error.

Rodney said...

E.I. perhaps some people remain anonymous to not draw attention to themselves only to the message of their particular post. I could have for obvious reasons also chosen to be anonymous, yet my comments would quickly betray my identity. As you can clearly see my interpretation of prophetic events differ from that of the popular mainstream. This is a burden I willingly accept, after all, my Lord was also considered a revolutionary and did not follow the mainstream.

My interpretation compliments the glory and might of the Lord God and the folly of foolish men to war against his covenant people. While the mighty men of Israel are as Saul in the face of the Philistines and their champion Goliath, there is one to stand and face this enemy. The Root of David, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, he will not rest until his enemies are his footstool. Soon all will acknowledge his Mighty and Glorious Hand as well as his call to Repentance and Salvation.

Expected Imminently said...

Rodney
My interpretation; I wasn’t aware that I had given one?

Any peace Israel has will not be sustained until they welcome The Prince of Peace.

I do know betach does not mean ‘peace’ and have said so several times previously. Peace is shalowm with the meaning of being whole, entire, complete.

Gesenius: betach
1. confidence; with a confident mind as used in Genesis 34:25. As when Dinah’s brothers took swords and went into the city to kill the men made feeble by circumcision, the men were BOLD by knowing their own strength and the weakness of their enemies.

2. Securely – without danger and fear, to dwell safely.
1Sam12:11 Israel dwelt SAFELY in the knowledge God had delivered them from their enemy.
Lev25:18,19 In fear of the Lord and keeping His judgements Israel could dwell SAFELY.
Lev26:5 And In the fruitfulness of the land they will dwell SAFELY.

The difference between the nations in Ezek39:6 is that their confidence is in themselves whereas Israel is confident in the fear and knowledge of the Lord.

Other then this, and the odd ‘chime’, I prefer to let you chaps battle it out between yourselves.

‘Chiming’!
I have to say I doubt there is much chance of a Tsunami arising from the Mediterranean. It doesn’t have a tidal flow (as I found out to my embarrassment when I leapt back from an advancing wave only to discover it went no further than the one’s before it).

A huge wave is also dependant upon the layout of the sea floor from deep to a shallow shelf. I really don’t think the Med is formed like an Oceanic floor because there is no strong ebb and flow from wave action.

The Golan is also called the Mountains of Ephraim. Bashan was one of the cities of the Giants which I find an interesting thought. It is also near the grotto where Jesus referred ‘the gates of hell’.

If peeps wish to remain anonymous its no skin off my nose; but it DOES cause confusion when several are attacking hither thither and yon and expecting me to know the difference between them.

It’s plain common sense to make a distinction, even if it isn’t their correct name. The only ‘anonymous’ I could identify was the one trying their best to speak up for Dr. Reagan as I was.

What would the Postman do without an addressee on the front of the envelope; the confusion is obvious when a group are all at it.

Fret not Rodney, Jesus knows His plans very well.

God bless
Sue

Anonymous said...

Sometimes the one you assume is a man is actually a woman. :) Even Jesus didn't reveal himself to those he did'nt trust. If kindness and grace were present, then this would not be necessary. But thanks for your taunting.

Anonymous said...

what does that mean Anonymous? that you can dish it out but you can't take it? Bad manners only deserve to be taunted.

Anonymous said...

Gargage in, garbage out what do you expect a red carpet

Anonymous said...

No garbage here. A misunderstanding maybe. I bless Dr. David Reagan and all here. Grace and Peace to all who call on His name.

Rodney said...

The Med is no pond, storms can come without a moments notice. E.I. as I said betach, has dual meaning, the term safely in the context identifies the fact that Israel will at the time of this battle have false confidence and false security. That should be evident for if they were truly secure Russia and company would not view them as attractive prey and easy spoil.

The suggestion is that they will first take the northern settlements of the Galilee region, thus the "unwalled villages", their next goal is central Israel or Jerusalem proper. According to the prophecy however this enemy coalition never has a chance to even meet their first strategic target. At the point in which the evil thought enters Gog, the fury of the Lord God will be poured out on the gathered coalition.

There is nothing that need precede this battle, the Gog/Magog battle could happen tommorrow if it were the time appointed. The IDF is no longer in a position of complete victory, any ground offensive would be halted with anti-tank measures found effective during the Hezbollah conflict. With the effective array of anti-aircraft missiles, and surface to air shoulder fired rockets, the IAF will also be extremely limited.
In addition Iranian missile boats equipped with the latest in supersonic torpedo's will eliminate any Israel naval incursion rapidly.

Israel is extremely limited in any combat potential, these are not the days of poorly trained Arab/Islamic enemies easily confused and battle weary. The enemies of Israel carry the latest in advanced weapondry, with routine training and strategic planning. They have established command and control for their missile array with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and Syrian forces at the ready. The only thing that can possibly prevent the destruction of the Jewish State is the direct intervention of the Lord God as recorded by the Prophet Ezekiel.

Rodney said...

E.I. you said that Israel is confident in the knowledge of the Lord, where is that evident in modern Israel today? Israel is much like America filled with religious icons, traditions, ceremony, and pomp, yet there is no evidence they acknowledge God as a nation.

Israel is rampant in drug activity, prostitution, abortion, and criminal mobs. Israel is in the same distinct position as Ezekiel describes, Israel is at present polluting the Holy name of God and is without knowledge of Him. This is recorded in Ezekiel 39:7.

They are not alone in this, for the nations also will be made to acknowledge the Holy name of the Lord God as also recorded in the same verse. "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel".

Rodney said...

The fable of a declared IDF victory in a supposed modern Psalm 83 conflict with expanded territory and spoils is dead in the water, why? The answer is simple, Israel has forgotten the God that has planted them in the Land to bring Glory to his Holy name that is now profaned among them. To continue with this fantasy reveals the ignorance of many concerning the truth of scripture and the reality on the ground. Time to reexamine what you support in light of what I have presented. What Glory will the Lord God receive in giving victory to a people that do not even acknowledge him and despise the covenant established with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Rodney
Out of courtesy I am replying to your comments addressed to me.

Please take note that I said I did not want to get caught up between you and the other chaps.

I have seen your presentations many times, I know your opinion and why – and I remain unconvinced by my own study and by the reactions of DR. D. Hocking; Prof.Dr. A.Fruchtenbaum… men I respect for their considered reasoning’s AND reservations. If you don’t know who they are, then please Google them as they are worth their salt.

I only stated my understanding of ‘betach’ and cited how the Bible uses it.

That there are storms in the Med, are not doubted. My point is that observing severe storms in the Med, are a mite tame to the one’s I have seen in the Atlantic Ocean, I image the Pacific is greater still?

Because the tide does not ebb and flow to any significance, coastal erosion e.g., is insignificant compared to the daily land carving of Atlantic waves, especially on the spring tides.

In my opinion, I consider a tidal wave formed from an earthquake in the Med will likely be no worse than a normal high tide on the Atlantic. It is really close to being an inland sea and does not have the weight and volume of water as an Ocean.

This is taking into consideration the ‘gates of Hurcules’ the narrow channel between the Med that flows out into the Atlantic by Gibraltar, should that remain the same as now.

IF however the region of Portugal and Spain also suffered a massive quake that somehow opened up that bottle neck for the Atlantic to rush in, that would undoubtedly make a tidal wave bigger.

As for a Tsunami, I understand that they only form under specific conditions e.g. the earthquake is shallow and under very deep water.

I’m not an expert, not even an amateur, but from visiting various Med countries including Israel, I cannot see that the destruction from a big wave, would be as bad as you anticipate. Imho. And that is all it is, an idea based upon what I personally know – which ain’t a lot.

Be calm, be still and know The Lord.
God bless
Sue

Billy said...

Ah...just like the good old days of scores of replies...I'm lovin' it!

It's so much more fun like this!