Monday, July 18, 2011

Twelve Signs of the End Times: Apostasy

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Could the record number of churches falling into apostasy be a sign of the end times?

On Saturday, April 9, 2011, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of the Blessings to Israel Ministries Saturday podcast show. During the hour long interview we took a look at twelve major end times signs in an attempt to raise the awareness of people concerning the numerous things going on in the world currently, how they relate to Bible prophecy, and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.


Blessings to Israel Ministries


#4) Apostasy in the Church

Brian Thomas: Let's talk about apostasy in the Church, something sadly unfortunate that no Christian should find any delight in happening. The Apostle Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, "Let no one deceive you by any means for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." Paul was talking here about the falling away of the church, the apostasy in the church. Have we arrived at this end times sign?

Nathan Jones: When we consider that the leading "evangelical" of our time period is Rob Bell of Mars Hill Church who can write a book that teaches there's no one going to Hell and that God will allow everybody into Heaven and there is no punishment for our rebellion against God, then we know without a shadow of a doubt that the church is in serious, serious trouble.

The Church has become so seeker sensitive, and that can be a good thing in that we want unbelievers to come to know Jesus as their Savior, but we have ended up chasing the believers right out of their churches. We have filled our churches with unbelievers and now are putting unbelievers into the church pulpits. These new church leaders are not saved. They have no fruits of the Spirit. They have no signs in their lives that show that they are saved.

These unbelievers in the pulpits keep writing their apostate books and they keep leading their apostate churches saying every kind of doctrine that has nothing to do with the Bible whatsoever. They teach their own flavor of universalism with its belief that everybody will get to Heaven and that all paths lead to God. This teaching is clearly not true nor biblical because Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through me." Universalism is the leading teaching of apostates. They believe that Jesus isn't the only way to Heaven and that Jesus isn't the Son of God. It's a terrible heresy to say that Jesus' death on the cross is not enough to get us into Heaven and that we can get ourselves into Heaven. It is the lie straight from Satan in the Garden of Eden.

We are definitely seeing more apostasy in the church today. Second Timothy 4:3 says, "For a time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine, instead to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." Well, that is exactly what we are seeing today. We now have a great number of people who are saying they are Christians, but they are surrounding themselves with teachers that only tell them what they want to hear and not what the Bible is teaching.

We can go into Revelation 2-3 and read about the Seven Churches. These are seven literal churches Jesus addressed that were in Asia Minor at the time, and they also represent seven eras within church history from the Apostles time going out and starting the churches to today which is clearly the final phase of Church History. This final phase of Church History is defined by the Church of Laodicea. It is the apathetic church. It is the church that thinks it's wealthy and that it's got it all together. We today think we've got it all together, but Jesus says we are naked, poor and blind, and we need to return to Christ. If we don't, Jesus says He will spit us out. There would be just no reason to keep us around because we are lukewarm and bad to His taste with our empty doctrines and egos, and we just don't have it all together whatsoever.

The explosive growth of apostasy is a big sign particularly demonstrated by the Western Church. I've got to say a lot of people get down on the Church today because of our apathy and apostasy that has overtaken us, but on the positive side there are some good spiritual signs. So many people are getting saved around the world. I have an associate who travels down to Asia and to Africa a lot and he says that there are so many people getting saved, especially in Africa. So many Africans are turning against Islam causing the Islamic clerics to be quite scared. They are holding conventions and saying, "Hey, we've got a big problem here. People are converting like crazy to Christianity." So, the Gospel is still marching on and there is still a great need for people to turn to Jesus. But, overall, we are seeing especially in the Western world the decline of the Church here over apostasy and false teaching.

Brian Thomas: I'm so glad you mentioned Rob Bell who really just breaks my heart seeing the type of message that he's putting out there. I think so many of us need to be voices to counter what he is teaching because you are right, he is putting out the message that everybody gets saved, and we know that simply isn't true. The Bible makes it very clear that universalism is not true. What is the purpose of our entire lives here if in the end everyone is saved? No, that is just a great heresy.

Nathan Jones: On some television and radio programs they for various reasons don't want you to name names, but if we are going to talk about apostasy then we have to point out just who these apostate teachers are and what they are teaching. People need to look out for them and be aware. I believe the Lord wants us to make sure that we point out apostasy as Paul did all the time when he said things like, "Don't listen to this guy. He is teaching you something wrong." We have to point out that guys like Rob Bell and some of Rick Warren's teachings which are just totally false teachings. They've got it wrong because they're not using the Bible and the Holy Spirit to guide what they're sharing.


Acceptance of Homosexuality

Brian Thomas: Right! I want to share something that happened last year concerning another case of apostasy in the Church. An article that I was reading stated that on January 3, 2010, a gay couple walked out of the Greater Mount Calvary Holy Church service in Washington, D.C. The reason they walked out was to protest the pastor's statement of, "Sex is only pleasing to God in the marriage bed, and the marriage bed is [for] a man and a woman." Of course, we know as Christians that this pastor was exactly right in what he was stating, but as a result this gay couple decided to walk out in protest, and sadly they found a church in which this type of thing is accepted. They found a church called Covenant Baptist Church which bills itself as a LGBT affirming congregation, which means the pastor supports same-sex marriage. If anyone is not familiar with LGBT, it stands for "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender." This is a group that really promotes and pushes the whole homosexual agenda. And so, this is just another example of where we see apostasy flourishing.

I have to ask myself this question, "How can any pastor of a church who knows their Scripture and sees that right in the Bible it speaks against homosexuality, yet bill itself as a church that accepts same-sex marriage?" And yet, we are seeing this very thing popping up all over the country.

Nathan Jones: Just go to whosoever.org. It's a homosexual website that promotes the teaching that Christians can be homosexuals and also be Christians. This points right back to the end times sign of increasing immorality that is consuming the earth. We know this teaching is not of the Bible and so is therefore a lie. For example, Jesus in Revelation 22:15 described those outside of Heaven in the very end of time who were dwelling in Hell. Why they are in Hell is because they never accepted Jesus. Jesus described them as, "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral..." Homosexuality in the Bible is said to be sexually immoral. The sexually immoral are lumped in with, "the murders, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

God never says, "You can continue to live in immorality and rebellion against me and at the same time you can be saved and forgiven by me." It just doesn't work that way. When we turn to Jesus, when we ask for forgiveness of our sins, it is for forgiveness for all of our sins and not what sins we think are sins and are not sins.

The Bible says that any sex outside of marriage is sexual immorality. The Bible is not particularly picking on the people who are homosexuals, but includes the people who are sleeping around. It is talking about the adulterers as well, and if there is any sin that the Bible talks about the most, it certainly is adultery. These are the very sins the Lord says that are keeping you separated from Him. You just cannot hold onto your sexual immorality and still be a child of God.

Homosexuality being acceptable in the Church is a huge apostasy that is spreading and is affecting every denomination. While it used to be just the Episcopalians who were the ones who obsessing over this, now the debate is taking over the Lutheran churches, the Baptist and pretty much every other denomination. The reason for this is because the denominational leaders and even the pastors are not into the Word enough to understand exactly what the Word teaches on this subject. Or, they don't take the Bible as the inerrant Word of God to begin with and so they pick and choose what they want to believe.

So, yes, apostasy in the Church is just to my amazement right now growing in leaps and bounds. It results in a made up religion. We can't even call these people Christians anymore, because they are making up their religion as they go.

Brian Thomas: I just want to state for anyone who wants to argue for these things, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 states that homosexuality is a sin and those people will not enter the Kingdom of God. Living that lifestyle and having that unrepentant sin and with churches accepting it goes right along with what 1 Timothy 4:1 teaches, that this is nothing but a doctrine of the Devil to accept homosexuality.

God knows what is good for us and He knows what is bad for us. He knows what destroys us. Again, like you were saying, it's not about picking on anyone in particular who engages in sexual immorality like the homosexuals and the adulterers, but God knows this destroys us and so He is looking out for our own good and for what's in our best interest. It is so important for people to understand that.

Nathan Jones: That's exactly right! I think sometimes as Christians we get so offended by that particular kind of sin that we react to these people in an unloving manner. I was getting a haircut a few years back and the lady asked me what I did for a living. I told her I was a reverend or evangelist and since we don't have a church to pastor we kind of just pastor everybody we come across. She replied that she didn't like God because she was a homosexual. She's a lesbian. And, do you know what I did? Instead of jumping out of my chair and saying "forget you" and running out like what is usually the common reaction with most Christians, I had the great opportunity to share the Gospel with her. Well, she had some really interesting views of God and salvation. I finally got down to the brass tacks of it is all that without repentance we are still under God's wrath as John 3:36 tells us. So, no matter if she is a homosexual, or a liar, or an adultery, or any kind of sinner, if we don't ask for Jesus' forgiveness of our sins and flee those sins and turn to Christ then we are not obeying Jesus. How then can we believe that we will live in Heaven with Him forever if we won't obey Him in the smallest things that He asks us to do?


The next two end times signs we'll look at is the emergence of nuclear weapons and warfare.

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Apostasy has and is alive in the church. For years I have gone from church to church escaping unsound doctrine. Unfortunately I have not found a church that has not been tainted by the lies of the culture. LambandLion has been a lifeline to me in this sea of discord. Thankyou. Also I want to make a comparision about the "Bridging Faiths" with the story in the bible about King Solomon. In the story two mothers claim the same baby. The true mother will not let her baby be killed. To me this is a picture of what is happening with religion. The "false" religions think it is fine to kill the child (truth in Jesus as Lord and Savior). The true church however with not compromise and 'kill' the child. In my view this proves we as followers of Jesus Christ are the ones who hold the truth and are the real mother or "truth. Just my spin. God Bless!

Nathan Jones said...

Love the two women analogy, Anonymous! Glad L&L could be a blessing to you.

Expected Imminently said...

WARNING to Post-trib and Pre-Wrath Brethren about ‘DUSTY PETERSON’ who has defrauded frightened Christians into buying a retreat from the coming Tribulation on the island of Gozo, near Malta.

By Scripture twisting, he preys upon the fears and sympathy of the Christians he deceives. This man is a work shy, out and out conman. One example:

“…she paid two installments of Rainier's rent (which he didn't pass on to the landlord!) on the CAMBRIDGE house where he overstayed his welcome by about two years. Here's what she did: "I actually paid his rent on two occasions (2 x £630). .......he said that he'd be homeless if he couldn't meet the rent, and I felt it my Christian duty to help him. Of course, looking back, I can see that it was an unwise decision to lend him the money. I had no idea until now that there was so much trouble regarding the Landlords.....that he owes them over £11,000!

The case against this fraudster is growing, so be cautioned against ‘lending’ him money for rent to prevent homelessness. He will make repeated promises to repay with a great deal of extra ‘luvly’ money as a ‘sweetener’. You will not see your money again. Many have felt pity for him to the tune of many thousands of £’s that he will not repay. His real name is:

NEVILLE JOHN RAINER. A.k.a DUSTY PETERSON

hartdawg said...

.....and dont forget about the truth on what's NOT being taught as well as the lies which are being taught. There was a church in my area that's so seeker sensitive they said revelation is book on worship ( which is but they left prophecy out all together) and they turned the passage of the great white throne judgement into a message about not judging others. Their doctrine is right but once you stop defending in fighting for it it leeds to apostasy. we don't need to be seeker sensitive we need to be holy spirit sensitive

Julio Guerra said...

Important message About The Return Of Jesus

FIDEL CASTRO RUX = 0+1+500+50+100+0+0+0+0+0+0+5+10=666
If you substitute roman number in the name of ex-President of Cuba will sum 666. I know this sounds weird, but give me a chance and look at it.
Please visit http://sobresuregreso.blogspot.com/ for more information. The lord is Coming. THE INFORMATION IS PART IN SPANISH AND PART IN ENGLISH; BUT TRY TO VISIT AND BE INFORMED. THE LORD IS CLOSE MORE THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE IMAGE.
GOD BLESS YOU.
The two more important post are

http://sobresuregreso.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html

&

http://sobresuregreso.blogspot.com/2011/06/senales.html

God Bless you. I,m working in the translation; but I believe there are not will time for that.

Anonymous said...

I tried to tell a guy on Facebook that homosexuality is a sin, and we love the person, but not the sin. He said that was not loving to tell them what they believed in was sin. I told him that I was glad that Jesus loved me enough to tell me I was sinning so I could repent and be saved. When I referred him to Romans, he said that was "just Paul's writings". He went into how dare we judge, you know...judge not lest you be judged.. a very misused application of what I was saying, and then told me to tell people when they were sinning by being a glutton. There was just no convincing this person... he even thinks the Bible is silent on abortions. And he has been very involved in church for years. Some serious teaching errors have been made in that church. It is just sad to see the people harden their hearts against the truth and to try to make the Word into what they want it to say.

C~ in Salem

Katie Hesselton said...

For some reason this post doesn't sit right with me. I get that homosexuality is a sin- plain and simple. But, why is this sin unique in that one cannot be saved if they commit this sin. I think many believers are caught/trapped in longstanding sins that they just cannot seem to shake. Although, I suppose one would make the argument that even though trapped in sin, they desperately want to be freed and are sorry for the sin. However, what about divorce (especially one that was not the result of adultery or an unbeliever leaving a believer). If this person remarries, isn't this considered adultery? If so, wouldn't this be considered unrepentant sin? I don't think anyone would say that this person could definitely not be saved. Any thoughts? Am I way off or just confused. . .?
Katie

Expected Imminently said...

Katie

Personally, I agree with your sentiments.

For the past 30yrs or so, a new belief system has been launched whereby genuine believers have come to accept a faulty understanding of what it is to be saved.
Being ‘faithful’ in the Christian walk is seen as ‘evidence’ a person is TRULY saved. If we are not ‘faithful’, then it is assumed that person was never saved in the first place.

This is called ‘Lordship Salvation’ begun by John MacArthur because he could not accept that a friend who had turned from following Jesus was ever saved in the first place. This is a BIG subject and I have to be brief.

He re-defined the orthodox definition of pistis – faith, into pisteo – faithful, claiming the difference is between a genuine ‘heart’ faith and an ingenuous ‘mind’ faith.

That view is erroneous even to the unskilled Greek student. The Greek for ‘heart’ is ‘kardia’, and I quote a scholar of N.T. Greek “…kardia, in N.T. Greek cover an area of meaning in which we find such English words as heart, mind, thoughts, intentions, attitude…in some languages thoughts and emotions are described not by a word for the heart but by a word for the stomach ( even ‘guts’ or ‘kidneys’) – my parenthesis.

The Bible makes NO such distinction between the heart and the mind, and IF a ‘backslider was saved’, then they are still saved but are Biblically ‘carnal’. Aren't we all at times?

There are no caveat given in Scripture to make ‘being faith-FUL’ a condition for Salvation. FAITH in Christ to save from sin is the ONLY given condition – not ‘works’ of any kind either before or after Salvation.

The error arises from not making a distinction between the initial act of Salvation which is Justification, ongoing Sanctification until we have Glorification because Salvation is past, present and future tense.

Salvation is an unearned gift of God and His gifts and callings are without repentance – i.e. he doesn’t ‘change His mind’ and take back the gift. We are only called to judge false prophets, never the Salvation of another regardless of how ‘carnal’ they have become, as grievous as it is to behold. ONLY God can make that judgment as sin is sin is sin…and that debt has been paid by Christ’s Blood.

All will be settled at the Bema seat of Christ and some will be ‘brands plucked from the burning’ and they will lose out on rewards – not Salvation which is God kept ETERNAL life. It could even be one of us in our un-known future; we have no idea of what waits for us. When we are faithless, He remains faithful.

DUCK!

Sue.

Anonymous said...

DUCK season?

rg

John Chingford said...

Hi EI

Although I do not agree with every aspect of Lordship salvation, I do have a problem understanding how someone like Jonathan Edwards (ex Triple Jumper) or any one who denies Jesus as the only way to be saved and becomes an atheist (after proclaiming Jesus earlier in their life) can be showing any evidence that they were truly born-again. Jesus stated clearly that all who the Father calls WILL come to Jesus. Paul stated that "He who began a good work in you will bring it to COMPLETION UNTIL the Day of Christ".

If we believe that we cannot lose our salvation or be "unborn" after being born into the kingdom, then how can someone ever turn their backs on Jesus if they were truly born again?

I accept that Christians may backslide and sin (for a period) but the Holy Spirit will ALWAYS convict and convince them to return. These backslidden believers (if truly saved) will never turn against Jesus but will always retain their belief in Him.

The fact of the matter is that there are some who deliberately turn their backs on believing on Jesus (after once being followers) and become ardent opponents of the faith. Surely it is THESE who were never truly born-again?

Or do you believe that even those who die as unbelievers after once being apparently "saved" will go to Heaven because they had a mind acceptance of Jesus at one time in their life?

John stated that such people showed that they did not belong to us because they left us, ie were not saved.

So, how do we know we are saved? We know because we believe in and love Jesus with not just our minds but with our souls. It is our soul that has been saved - not our intellect, SURELY???.

Billy said...

Katie said "For some reason this post doesn't sit right with me. I get that homosexuality is a sin- plain and simple. But, why is this sin unique in that one cannot be saved if they commit this sin."

Katie...here is a verse that seems to answere your question - it seems to make it clear there IS a difference when it comes to sexual immorality:

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."

John Chingford said...

Remember, it is Jesus who keeps us in the faith. It is not by our works or effort. Jesus said that we are held by the Father and by the Son. Therefore, it is not by our works or strength that we remain saved but by the grace and power of Jesus through the Holy Spirit that keeps us saved.

Therefore, if Jesus keeps us, it is not possible that a truly saved believer will ever stop believing because they have the Holy Spirit within empowering them to believe. Paul said that a person who does not have the Holy Spirit is unsaved. Therefore, it is reasonable to state that if they are truly saved they DO have the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they HAVE been born into God's kingdom and WILL be kept by God.

It makes no logical sense to me that the one who has the Holy Spirit and is kept until THAT DAY will ever reject Jesus later on.

Mrs. J. and Miss J. said...

When I was single, I did not mind traveling but once married I never really cared for it. Losing Rosy for a little was frightening. Praise God I have never had to deal with that but my husband did at a store once with our daughter and it scared him half out of his wits. He never went shopping without me after that.
Mrs. J.

Mrs. J. and Miss J. said...

I cannot remember where it is at but in the Old Testament, one prophet stated judgment was coming because the leaders were chasing the righteous out of the synagogue because of the wickedness of the leaders. Human nature always repeats itself because we never learn from history. We had been asked to leave a fellowship because we helped a woman who had been married several times when she was injured and bleeding. We noticed her cupboards were bear so we brought her food. She knew what church we went to so she sent them a thank you note and the elders were upset and asked us to leave, go figure. Another place we were asked to give up personal possession to the pastor for his use and he wanted the right to come into our home and claim whatever he wanted, when we refuse we were asked to leave. Over the years, we have seen things that are astonishing and we grieve. Same as anonymous we too have traveled from church to church looking for truth and have been disappointed.

Sorry about the last post I copied the wrong one, guess it was a senior moment.
mrs. J.

Katie Hesselton said...

Wow, thank you so much for that wonderful, well studied response, Sue. I agree very much that once saved, always saved.
I also hear what you are saying John. If someone turns their back on God, it leaves us to wonder if they ever were truly saved. Only God knows for sure. My sister for instance became saved through a friend in Junior high school. Then later in junior/senior year of high school she became very liberal and also rejected the notion that anyone can know for sure (she was agnostic at best). Some years later after college, she was called back to church. . .long story short, she is now the strongest believer that I know. In hindsight I think all my worry was wasted because God had her all the time. Just thought I'd share:)
Katie

Billy said...

I have realized this morning I have a big problem. And it is a BIG one!

Too often when I make my often ignorant, sometimes stupid, posts I try to think things through on my own, from what I think I already know, not bothering to check the Word of God first.

In this case (my above post on this subject), I did the opposite. What a total fool I've been!!! What the h--l have I been doing?!

I apologize to all. I'm sorry for a lot of what I've been posting on this site. I'm very much ashamed of all the comments I've made without reading the Bible first in my misguided search for understanding.

If I could, I'd delete all my previous post that weren't truly based on the Word of God.

I hope you will all forgive me for such irresponsibility and I ask Jesus to forgive me also.

I won't post ever again unless I do research and am faithful to the Word of God.

Again, I'm very sorry and remorseful.

John Chingford said...

Yes Katie, you are right. Even Paul had to hold his hands up and state "only the Lord knows who are His".

When Jesus said "judge not that you be not judged" it could be referring to our judgement regarding whether a person is truly saved or not - although Paul did class certain believers as "false brethren" (2 Cor 11:26) and we are instructed to judge the false teachings of leaders - but maybe not pronounce judgement on their eternal destination because ONLY God knows where they stand.

Katie Hesselton said...

Hey, Billy, don't be so hard on yourself. I somehow missed your response before. That verse you brought up does seem to point to a distinction. WHile the distinction does not indicate loss of salvation it was a good point.
Katie

John Chin said...

Good comment Katie

Its amazing. I was going to respond to Billy's earlier comment. I started to write but felt the Holy Spirit didn't want me to make a comment, so did not send it. It's good because clearly the Holy Spirit spoke to Billy without me needing to say anything. Praise God!

You are absolutely right Katie and please take note Billy. What Katie said is spot on.

John Chingford said...

Oops. I typed "John Chin" in error. Should be John Chingford

Katie Hesselton said...

Wow, that is amazing. You felt led not to speak and I somehow missed it- coincidence, I think not:)

Billy said...

Katie,

You are right. I wasn't trying to address the loss of salvation in my previous point and I'm glad you caught that.

Billy

Expected Imminently said...

John Chingford said “…I do have a problem understanding how someone like Jonathan Edwards (ex Triple Jumper) or any one who denies Jesus as the only way to be saved and becomes an atheist (after proclaiming Jesus earlier in their life) can be showing any evidence that they were truly born-again…”


John21:21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?"

22. Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? YOU FOLLOW ME"

Romans Chapter 14.

Vs.4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, FOR GOD IS ABLE TO MAKE HIM STAND.

10. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

12. So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

13. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.

i.e. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS – YOU FOLLOW CHRIST.

Plus. As lost sinners we are incapable MAKING Jesus Lord of our life - ALL we can do is as instructed BELIEVE in The Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED. (Justified)

Jesus IS and REMAINS Lord whatever!

Nowhere are we told to MAKE Jesus our Lord to be saved. That is a burden added, such as the Pharisees put on the shoulders of the Jews. Lordship Salvation is last day Phariseeism and it is ANOTHER Gospel.

Sue

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Billy

I couldn't see anything wrong with your comment here as I took it as Katie did.

Are you referring to the other thread perchance? Just wondering?

God bless you Billy, you be a luverley brother - fret not.

(((GIANT HUG)))

Sue
x

Billy said...

Sue,

I am referring to a whole lot of my past "other thread" comments.

Not this one. This one I did like I will be doing from now on.

Thanks for the hug. I needed it.

Billy

:)

Disciple said...

Seems applicable. my word verification was "hugmatic"

Dear Billy

I write in response to your last thread comments per judgements. I wonder if these thoughts might be helpful?

Just wondering about Annanias and Saphira in Acts 5. They were Christians weren't they? yet they suffered at God's hand for their sin, didn't they?

Consider that nothing happens outside of God's ultimate control. Doesn't God have ultimate control over the weather and does he not intervene many times? To say that Christians dying by a freak of nature is to be expected is to say that it wasn't God's Will for them to die but the "weather" took them.

"It is once appointed for a man to die". This means that GOD decides when we die, not because of freak of nature.

If we use that argument we could say that God used the weather to kill a Christian because it was his/her time.

I agree that God does not kill a Christian because of his/her sin which is covered by the blood of Jesus, but sometimes there are still consequences of our sin - like David, Bathsheba and their son who died.

The story of Sodom and Gomorra tell us that God will not judge a City if there are a certain percentage of believers there. If there are few believers then He will first take them out and then judge the City.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello C in Salem

Yes! Of course it is upsetting to watch a professing, or even professed believer going down a dark path. I can understand your need to want to help, but if we cast pearl before swine, they will only turn and rend us. There is nothing to stop us from praying for them to repent and return to the ways of The Lord. They may not admit it, but they are out of fellowship with their Heavenly Father.

I’m not calling a carnal believer a ‘swine’, it just means they are not fit, at that present time, to hear precious words when they are wallowing up to their neck in sin. If they are TEACHING that it is acceptable in God’s Word to be amoral in any way, then what they are saying is false teaching as in Matthew 7, for they are ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’, those we are to mark and avoid.

God bless you for caring.


Hello rg

Duck shooting? – I should say so, with me as the duck. That’s a subject I have been shot at for on many a day.

Praise the Lord!


Hello John

Looking at my post to you it seems I am telling you to bluntly ‘mind your own business’ – well to be fair, in truth, I suppose I am, but I meant it generally not specifically at you personally. I count that to include myself just as much as anyone else.

I am so sorry if you have taken it to heart, please don’t be offended; you know my feet are too big for my own good.


Hello Billy

(((EVEN BIGGER HUG)))

Billy said...

Disciple,

Thanks. I'm only going to be looking at things through a Biblical perspective as best I can from now on and try to avoid allowing my personal feelings affect how I determine what it the truth.

Nathan Jones said...

Katie, Brian and I aren't trying to single out homosexuality as a sin. It's various churches embracing it and ordaining gays that make this particular sin such a clear sign of apostasy. It's a line we inherently know not to cross. Even the gays know it's a line not to cross in making a Bible that removes all passages that condemn homosexuality as a sinful lifestyle that's harmful and ultimately self-destructive.

Confussed, I would say that the apostasy in the Church today is the final phase of the Church - Laodicea of Revelation 3. It's different than the great falling away or rebellion, which is the harlot world religion existing in the Tribulation. What's confusing is that the lines are blurred because the harlot religion exists in this time as well, it just hasn't yet taken over the world as the dominent world religion. That'll happen after the Rapture.

Katie Hesselton said...

Thanks for your reply, Nathan. I understand more the point you were trying to make. I agree.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that imo it is possible for a believer to be homosexual. Even if someone does not feel it is a sin (through some false interpretation of the bible), he/she would still be forgiven because God forgives both known and unknown sins of his true followers. Just my opinion, i suppose, and I know this is not what all believe.
Thanks,
Katie

Katie Hesselton said...

Hey, Nathan- I forgot to ask you: What is the great harlot religion you were speaking of that exists today, but is yet to take over the world?
Thanks again,
Katie

Anonymous said...

Expected... boy do your words ring true, and I have thought of them several times in the past couple of days. It is hard to balance wanting to warn those you love, and telling them the truth and not saying anything just becuase it brings on an agrument. I want to bite my tongue off after I see a simple comment go sideways. It is not an easy thing to love people enough to warn them.

C~ in Salem

Katie Hesselton said...

Billy- the same thing happened to me once, but then I realized that I had forgotten to type in the funny letters before posting. Perhaps thats what happened? Hope you won't stop visiting.
That passage from 1 corinthians 6:9-10 from the article, which you brought up does say that homosexuals, among others, will not inherit the kingdom of God. IMO this does not mean that homosexual people or even practicing homosexual people cannot be saved.
If you take the verse in context you will see that Paul is trying to make the point that they(the corinthians) are behaving like unsaved people. They were saved through Christ though:"Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1 Cor. 6:11). Because they were saved and had new identities in Christ, they were no longer counted as homosexuals or any other type of sinner though they continued to do the same things. He pleaded with them to stop behaving in a way that was incompatible with their new identities and since God is going to condemn unsaved people for these very same sins they should take their own sins more seriously.
That's what I feel Paul is saying.
Blessings,
Katie

Katie Hesselton said...

No problem! I think you're the type of person who keeps life interesting! You remind me of my husband who wears his heart on his sleeve, is a bit impulsive, some times speaks before thinking, a bit mercurial perhaps?:)
I, on the other hand, am the type who overthinks things until I talk myself out of saying anything. If all people were like me life would be pretty boring!
Please don't feel bad, you really shouldn't!

Expected Imminently said...

Atta boy Billy! up and at em!

Well said Katie and I have the same understanding of Corinthians.

Been shopping - now pooped - anyone for a nice cup of tea?

God bless y'all, especially Billy.
Sue
x

Nathan Jones said...

Katie, I believe the Great Prostitute/harlot religion of Rev. 17 is humanism in all it's various forms. For more details, check out this past article The Great Prostitute of Revelation 17.

Great point about 1 Cor. 6:9-11. Corinth was a very wicked port city, and so the church was filled with the sexually immoral who became saved. Key though is verse 11, "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." They were sexually immoral - past tense. As Christ followers they were no longer to be immoral. If they were still practicing homosexuality or living in adultry or were greedy and drunkards, then how could they still call themselves "Christ followers," right.

Nathan Jones said...

Billy, I received your post by email, but don't see it on the blog. It happens now and then. Blogger loses a few. I will kindly delete your follow up comments since we have your original post here now.

Here's what Billy posted:


From the NIV Bible online:

"1 Corinthians 6

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Bible comment:
(a) 1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts."

The Bible says practicing homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Former homosexuals saved by Jesus that do not engage in men with men sex will inherit the Kingdom of God because they have been washed by the blood of Christ.

Note the verse above that says "And that is what some of you were." Some of you WERE, not ARE, WERE.

As the Word of God says "Do not be deceived".

I have fallen into the trap of letting what I want to believe (because they truth may be hard to accept sometimes) clouds my vision of the truth. But I've seen the error in my ways. I have to know what the WORD OF GOD says and BELIEVE IT, even if it is difficult. The Bible says yes you can be saved and you need to change your ways!

You can't be a rapist, become a Chrstian, and continue to rape women for example and think all is well.

Expected Imminently said...

Billy

Amen!

John Chingford said...

Nathan

Sometimes blogger decides to put a comment in "spam". Is it possible that Billy's comment ended up there? On my blog, comments do not appear until I publish them myself. Sometimes they go into the spam folder. However, your blog allows comments to appear without monitoring. So I am a bit confused why a comment which has been automatically published gets deleted later. Does it mean that you still need to authorise those comments for them to remain?

I hope it doesn't mean that readers leave comments on my blog which I never see due to a blogger problem causing them to disappear.

John Chingford said...

Hi Nathan

I have to disagree that harlot religion is humanism. Revelation clearly calls it "Mystery Babylon". Paul mentioned (in one of his letters) "the mystery of iniquity already works".

The context of various scripture passages is that the whore is a re-emergence of old Babylonic religion and its Babylonic empire which Paul was warning was already (in small ways) infiltrating the church and did so in a much major way through the Catholic system.

Revelation says "Babylon the Great". The Babylonic empire and its religion would have been far more powerful (demonic) if it wasn't for God dividing the languages at Babel. In Revelation it is saying that in the Tribulation period there will be a global revival of this old demonic Babylon religion.

In the Babylonic religion (a gnostic religion) they followed very similar practices to those carried out by the RC church.

In our day there are many strands of Babylonic religion amongst us and can be found in New Age, Catholics, Masons, Illuminati, emerging christianity etc. The whore will be a combination of all those religions which are linked to that old Babylonic religion which also includes hinduism, buddism etc

Babylon had at its foundation and heart the worship of satan (in his various names and god names, following the lie that mankind can all become like God and be gods reigning on the Earth.

Katie Hesselton said...

Thanks again for your reply Nathan. The link you posted regarding secular humanism being the great harlot religion was very good and I think you are very likely right.
As for the interpretation of Corinthians, I guess it all goes back to the debate of whether one can lose salvation or not. I still feel that since the corinthians were (past tense) saved, then they no longer possessed any of those immoral titles in God's eyes because of Christ's blood. Paul was imploring them to turn from the sins of the wicked who will not enter the kingdom- because of what Christ did for them and not to continue to earn it. You see, remaining free from immorality in order to remain saved seems very works based to me. You make a very good point, but I guess we just interpret the bible differently. I am not ruling out the possibility that I might be wrong:)
Katie

Anonymous said...

The Harlot Bride:
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The spirit of YHVH has departed from most of the churches in America because of the spirit of apostasy. The whole of the word of God is a testament or will by the blood of the testator. The very character and ethos of the Holy Scripture is salvation by the precious blood of Yahshua Messiah. It is a crimson cord that traces its way from the beginning to the end through the Garden of Eden to the book of Revelations. To take away or tear down this eternal life force that is forever present in the living word of God is to destroy the Revelation knowledge of God through Yahshua Messiah. Christ’s shed blood and sacred death was sufficient for the sanctification from sin throughout the ages of time and it is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Bible repetitively speaks of God’s promise to preserve his word when he says, “Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35). “The grass withereth, the flowers fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever”

BEHOLD A WHITE HORSE Is A Must Read For Every Truth Seeker as Cisco Wheeler has given the world a deeper insight as to how Catholicism, Masonry, Witchcraft,Mormonism and all Secret Societies, has blinded its spiritual tapestry within the very fibers of the Christian church. Through the traditions of man the Anti-Christ has come through the front door of the churches and has deceitfully sat himself down as a teacher in the pulpits of the world churches of today, to deceive what is left of the righteous seed. of YHVH GOD. Through the blinding of Luciferian knowledge in the churches of today,the world council of Religious Leaders aims to serve as a model and guide for the creation of a community of world religions.... The objective of the council is to serve a resource to the United Nations and its agencies around the world, nation states and other international organizations, offering the collective wisdom and resources of the faith and traditions towards the resolution of critical global problems. BABYLON THE BEAST RIDING THE BEAST OF REVELATIONS: 17

Countless churches and Christian ministries across this nation are already infiltrated by the Illuminati, Satanists, cults, often by CIA and the intelligence community, spying on the faithful...even up to the PULPIT itself. Enemies of the true Gospel from many sectors of society and many hidden agendas have infiltrated, corrupted, deceived and even brainwashed many Christians in this desperate hour.

Satanists are preparing their people to assist in the government/military round-up of Christians when martial law is declared. Just as patriotic Americans are preparing, even forming Constitutionally based and legal militias to fight for their freedoms when martial law is declared, so the satanists/Illuminati are preparing their people in covert paramilitary training camps, to combat ALL future NEW WORLD ORDER RESISTANCE. They will work with the traitorous elements of our military and government and law enforcement, to help round up all NWO resistance, including CHRISTIANS

Please go to Revelations Illustrated .com. Then click on Video Sample. Thank You Cisco Wheeler

Anonymous said...

I David S."challenge" you all, both gay or straight, to read the book called "What the Bible REALLY says about Homosexuality" written by Daniel A. Helminiak, Ph.D. It "will" answer those questions you may have. It did mine! You can Google & purchase it. I have ordered several more to give to my friends...even to those worldwide preachers on TV to prove themselves wrong! I will take a stand for God's people...even the Gay & Lesbian people! AMEN and AMEN.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes, I too have read that great book. It opened my eyes up and my heart up to the denounced gays and the hatred feelings we as so called Christians have put on and towards them. My apology to you all. God Bless!

Nathan Jones said...

Concerning the natural order of sexual union being between one man and one woman for life, Jesus reiterated in Matthew 19:4-5 what He set about in Genesis 1, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

Concerning the abberation of homosexuality, Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

The punishment for such an act was severe, as Leviticus 20:13 announces, "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Romans 1:24-27 states, “Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 explains, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

1 Timothy 1:9-10 that sentence under the law is for, "We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, or adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine…"

For more information on the Bible on homosexuality, see this article and this article.

Fortunately, no matter who the sinner is or what they’ve done, we can be forgiven, saved and cleansed by repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.