Friday, July 15, 2011

Twelve Signs of the End Times: Natural Disasters

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Is an increase in the number of natural disasters a sign of the end times?

On Saturday, April 9, 2011, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of the Blessings to Israel Ministries Saturday podcast show. During the hour long interview we took a look at twelve major end times signs in an attempt to raise the awareness of people concerning the numerous things going on in the world currently, how they relate to Bible prophecy, and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.


Blessings to Israel Ministries


#3) Natural Disasters

Brian Thomas: I want to speak now on earthquakes. Wow! We have seen so many destructive earthquakes going on just over the last two years. The world witnessed the significant earthquake that hit and flooded northern Japan followed by frequent aftershocks. Japan had the big 9.0 earthquake just this year. We have seen major earthquakes in Haiti and Chile. There have been so many of these earthquakes that they are literally reshaping the earth. In terms of physical land masses, the countries are actually moving several inches and even in some cases maybe even a couple of feet.

In Matthew 24:7, Jesus Christ spoke of earthquakes when He stated, "Nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places." Have we arrived today to the point that Jesus Christ was speaking of concerning these earthquakes happening in various places?

Nathan Jones: Certainly, one of the biggest signs of the end times and the definitely the most noticeable sign is natural disasters.

Concerning the catastrophic earthquake in Japan, it is interesting that the mayor of Tokyo being a Buddhist said something like, "I think God is trying to get our attention." He quickly recanted his statement later on, but even people who don't believe that there is a God as in the God of the Bible are noticing that He is trying to get our attention.

Many people including Christians will look at all these natural disasters and say, "Oh, you know, this is just nature happening." Or, they will pass the cause of these natural disasters off as Global Warning or some man-made event. But, God all throughout the Bible demonstrated that He uses natural disasters to wake people up from their spiritual apathy so they will ask for forgiveness and will turn to Jesus in repentance. Judgment brings repentance.

A British charity called Oxfam went through Red Cross data and found that the earth is currently experiencing approximately 500 natural disasters per year. There was only 120 per year back in 1980. The number of weather related disasters in 2006 was 240, while there was only 60 back in 1980. Between 1985-1994 they found there were 174 million people affected by these disasters each year. This figure has increased today to 70% or 254 million per year. These statistics are about three years old, but the latest statistics that have come out say that we are having so many major devastating earthquakes that we can expect one big one to occur every 45 days. Can you imagine an earthquake like in Japan happening every 45 days?

Earthquakes and other natural disasters are increasing in frequency and intensity. This is leading up to the point which the Bible talks about in Revelation 6:12-14 and 11:13 and 16:17-21, that there will be a number of ultra-devastating earthquakes which will happen during the Tribulation. As a matter of fact, there will be one so bad that the Bible says it will level the mountains across the planet. So, all these disasters that we are feeling now are working their way up to the particular judgments that God has planned for the earth and where a super earthquake will finally totally ravage the face of the earth.

The result to the earth's landscape from this coming super earthquake we can also read about in the Bible. During the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus is back and ruling the planet, we are told in Zechariah 14:10 and Micah 4:1 that Jerusalem will be raised up as the highest point on the earth. The remainder of the earth will remain a flattened plain. The earth will be flat. I live in Texas and it is as flat as a board. I'm going to miss visiting mountains. Imagine all of the people living in mountainous areas like Switzerland and in the Rocky Mountains having their mountains tumble down around them and the resulting amount of death that will unfortunately come of that.

So, yes, all these natural disasters are continuing in frequency and intensity working their way up to the super earthquake which will flatten the world during the Tribulation.

Brian Thomas: From what the Bible says and it's hard to fathom, but what we are witnessing with today's earthquakes can only be thought of as little more than tremors in comparison to the earthquake that is going to come during the Tribulation. That is really amazing!

The nay-sayers out there who believe earthquakes have been going on for thousands of years and are no different now have to run up against the statistics that show they are happening with more frequency and more intensity. Natural disasters are a "labor pains" sign that Christ spoke of in Matthew 24. The world can easily see these things are happening closer together and with more intensity. No doubt exists that we are definitely seeing these things happening today.

Nathan Jones: Definitely! The resulting tsunamis are due to the underground seismic activity, and Luke 21:25 also points out that in the end times there will be the tossing of the seas.

The Bible also talks about signs in the sun and the moon and the stars. Astronomers have been very perplexed lately because the sun seems so very inactive, and then for a bit there got suddenly very active. The Bible particularly talks about the moon becoming in appearance like sackcloth and like blood. "Blood moons" are what we call it today, where the moon because of our atmosphere looks red. There are a series of these blood moons coming. The Bible talks about the stars just disappearing out of the sky.

A lot of these astronomical signs I believe we are not quite seeing the fulfillment of just yet. During the Tribulation, especially during the last part under what are called the Vial or Bowl Judgments, the sun will scorch the earth and the stars will appear to have fallen out of the sky. The full fulfillment of those celestial signs will happen during the Tribulation. But, we are starting to see just the very beginnings of these signs, like say the tossing of the seas in these great tsunamis that have been wiping out so many countries. The partial fulfillment of natural disasters we are already beginning to see fulfilled in this day and age.

Brian Thomas: The tsunami we saw this year in Japan because of the massive earthquake, it was just amazing footage to sit there and watch on television. The videos showed this consuming ocean wave coming in and literally picking up over 50 to 100 cars in places. It just totally obliterated everything in its path. When I saw that, scripture like Luke 21:25 was the first thing that came into my mind. It concerns the seas and the waves roaring. Just a few years earlier in 2004 in the Indian Ocean, we witnessed another tsunami that killed tens of thousands of people. When we see these disasters happening it sounds like we should expect them to occur even more as we approach the Tribulation, and then during the Tribulation period these things will increase even more in frequency and intensity.

Nathan Jones: Oh, definitely. Look at between 1991 and 2004, just 13 years of American history. Nine out of the ten largest insurance-related natural disasters happened. Nine of the ten greatest FEMA relief costs were incurred. Five of the costliest hurricanes in history struck the U.S., and we suffered under four of the largest tornado swarms in history, the worst being the record number of tornados which struck this year. That's all happened just during the last two decades!

The statistics show that we are in an incredible exponential curve of increasing natural disasters that are pointing to the Lord's soon return.

Brian Thomas: Jesus Christ is letting us know. The signs are all around us. He is letting us know that He is coming soon and to get ready.

Nathan Jones: Amen! Isn't it great about the personality of God? For example, when we read in Ezekiel 38-39 about the Gog-Magog Battle — a group of Islamic nations along with Russia that come against Israel in the end times and try to conquer it — it says there a few times that God lets the world know ahead of time that this event is going to happen. Isn't it great that God didn't just leave us in the dark? If we get into the Bible and read, we can understand that the Lord is telling us, "I am coming back soon." He wants us to know. He wants us to be prepared. It's like when Jesus used the story of the virgins waiting for a wedding. They are just sitting waiting keeping their lamps lighted for when Jesus comes. Well, it is that close. Jesus is coming just so soon that we need to keep our lamps lit, so to speak. We need to keep our lives in tune to serving the Lord with the time we have remaining in anticipation of His return.

Brian Thomas: Absolutely! You are so right on that. God didn't have to tell us. He didn't have to warn us at all. He could have just said, "Be ready." And yet, He did warn us to get ready because He let us know what the signs would be that would let us know when it is about to happen.

Nathan Jones: It's just so sad that it takes these kinds of intense natural disasters to get our attention. We are just that stiff-necked and close-minded and self-focused on our own lives that God has to go to this length to bring us to finally admit there is a God and I'd better get to know Him and get my life right with Him.


The next end times sign we'll look at is the growing apostasy in the Church.

24 comments:

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Nathan
This is a chance to get a bee out of my bonnet! ;)

The Rapture is definitely a sign-less event, it is un-knowable and all 'signs' refer to the Seven years and the 2nd Coming at its end. Certain respected teachers insist that what we are seeing today has nothing to do with the 70th Week signs because they are all future and to claim differently is historicist. That I do agree with HOWEVER…

I agree with A.F., that in the Olivet discourse, Jesus makes a distinction between the approaching 'season', and the start of the Seven.

Some match the signs of Olivet precisely with the Revelation signs – but I cannot accept that view. The ‘non-signs’, what is to be expected before the final Seven, are in Matt.24:4-6 and not so much ‘historical’ but PRESENT always, until…

Top of Jesus’ list is Deception which has increased over the Church age; MANY false-christs (plural) which began with Bar Kochba (sp?) just after the resurrection and have continued down through the age along with many wars and rumours of wars over the centuries. Jesus said ‘don’t be troubled: for all these things must come to pass, BUT THE END IS NOT YET.

Vs.7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in divers places.

This is idiom for world war, and the first time in history this occurred was World War 1 & 2 and the Jews were the ‘scape goats’ for the nations. So from 1918 – 1945, Jesus words in vs.7 came to pass. There was a world-wide flu pandemic after WW1 which began the ‘pestilences’ such as AIDS while earthquakes have steadily increased. Most importantly of all, prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 when the nation of Israel was literally ‘born in a day’. After 2000 years of predicted dispersion around the world, the Jews were back in The Land off the back of a horrific holocaust.

Vs.8 All these things are the BEGINNING of sorrows.

Birth pangs start off mildly, at first, in the MAJORITY of pregnancies. I have four sons, my pregnancies were all slow starters and how we mums to-be envied the rare occasion when a mother’s waters broke unexpectedly, and baby was quickly delivered. Even rarer, a woman is not even aware she is pregnant until she goes into labour! Neither of these is common.

In His mercy, God is giving the world plenty of warning to repent, just as in the days of Noah when they had 120 years of warnings to change their minds and follow God. Now, the world has been given from 1918 – 2011 = 93 yrs of warning as the beginning of the birth-pains build. I suspect that it is shortly after the Rapture that the ‘waters’ will break and THE Tribulation’s severe pains will take hold and build in intensity. As in the days of Noah, when he and his family were shut into the ark by God’s own hand, made safe before the waters broke forth and deluged the earth in judgment.

The Jews and their heritage of the Land of Israel, began with the Zionist movement just before the eruption of the ‘ethnos against ethnos’ when Duke Ferdinand was assassinated. That event began WW1 and the second stage of the predicted World War flared up again with Hitler. The Jews were still the Scapegoats for all the ills in the world and nothing has changed.

The Revelation Seals have similarities to the first ‘non-signs’ Jesus gave on Olivet; but ‘similar’ is not ‘same’. The Revelation Seals in Ch 6:3-8 contain God’s ‘four sore judgements’ He warned Israel about in Ezekiel 14:21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my FOUR SORE JUDGMENTS upon Jerusalem, the SWORD, and the FAMINE, and the noisome BEAST, and the PESTILANCE, to cut off from it man and beast? These are also in his warnings in Lev26. ‘If my people…’

The Seal signs are certainly future for when ‘hard labour’ sorrows begins for Israel; but it is the BEGINNING of sorrows which we are experiencing today imo.

Maranatha!

Sue

Nathan Jones said...

I totally agree, Sue, that there are no signs that have to occur before the Rapture happens. The Rapture kind of hangs out there as its own event separate from the Tribulation, though timing-wise there are some connecting tendrils.

All these signs of the times point to Jesus' Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation. Like you said, we've been seeing them build since Jesus' time, but can look back the last 100 years and definitely see they're increasing in both frequency and intensity, culminating during the Tribulation.

I'll disagree passionately with those who claim WW2 was the Second Seal Judgment or the Antichrist is Stalin or some other such newspaper exegesis nonsense. The 21 Judgments are for the Tribulation only.

You said it well concerning the signs, these are the "beginnings of sorrows," not the final fulfillment of the "time of Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:7).

Billy said...

Finally, a "weather/natural disaster" realted post from Lamb & Lion that I can agree with.

These weather/natural disaster incidents are the labor pains pointing to the soon return of Jesus.

My disagreement with Lamb & Lion is when they attempt to link these weather/natural disaster incidents with some event like an Bush/Obama anti-Isreal stance. So, because Bush/Obama did "x" against Israel and the gay is S.F. did "x", etc. then God is going to kill a bunch of Christians in Oklahoma with a tornado.

These weather/natural disaster events are the labor pains. Period.

Billy said...

Sorry about all the spelling errors in my previous post, a guy came to swap out my monitor and I had to post without proofreading.

Here it is corrected and edited to how I would have actually posted it:

Finally, a "weather/natural disaster" related post from Lamb & Lion that I can agree with.

These weather/natural disaster incidents are the labor pains pointing to the soon return of Jesus.

My disagreement with Lamb & Lion is when they attempt to link these weather/natural disaster incidents with some event like a Bush/Obama anti-Isreal stance. So, because Bush/Obama did "x" against Israel then God is going to kill a bunch of Christians in Oklahoma with a tornado.

These weather/natural disaster events are almost always the labor pains sign of Christ's return.

ALMOST always? Yes, sometimes there could be a link. Hurricaine Katrina had a direct hit on New Orleans and their gay days celebration.

That I can understand. I couldn't understand it if a city in Okalhoma were destroyed instead of New Olreans. That's where I get tripped up in linking weather and wrath.

Laura said...

Well said, Billy! I completely agree with you. The weather/natural disasters are NOT doled out to people because of "what we did to Israel."

If that were so, then what becomes of our "loving Father"? Why, He would be called a liar, that's what! For Jesus has paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD (past, present, and future), and He Himself said, "It is enough!"

The idea that people are killed left and right because of the actions of some government official makes God out to be a volatile, vengeful, tyrannical, capricious God--and not Someone I want anything to do with!

I'm just curious: Has anybody "correlated" the anti-Israel decisions of Israel-hating countries (like Iran) to natural disasters? I mean, if this baloney were true for America, then it would also be true for long-time enemies of Israel--in fact, they'd have had so many natural disasters by now that they wouldn't even exist anymore!

Mrs. J. and Miss J. said...

We are told it rains on the just and the unjust alike, God judgments with natural disasters comes with an Ark. Noah and his family were not without suffering and a great deal of inconvenience in being secluded in the Ark for the duration of the judgment. In those disasters mentioned above, the stories of how God brought many Christian through those storms are great in number. Even in the fires out west, the number of Christians who may have lost their homes but still told of how God preserved their lives by miracles. In the 9/11 there are a lot of stories of equal miracles God performed to preserve life and souls. The righteous will suffer along with the wicked, the faithful that went into bondage during Israel’s history in the Old Testament shows how the hand of God was on the faithful but they still suffered some in captivity. We live in a fallen world and will not escape without some suffering because of this. We will suffer from unrighteousness (immorality) as it increases in the days to come. We will not be unscathed. For over 25 years I have suffered from the results of a fire in the place I worked, but God has sustained me in spite of the health issues. For those same number of years my survival have baffled doctors and amazed me with His grace and mercies, yet like Joni, there is daily suffering, as Paul stated His grace is sufficient. In addition, like Job, it is not without complaints, but the love of God in spite of the suffering, He is in control no matter what it looks like, glory be to His name.
Mrs. J.

Expected Imminently said...

Mrs J and Miss J
Absolutely, you are Biblically (not emotionally) 100% correct!

Jesus said in John 16:33 "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Laura and Billy

Regarding the vile actions against Israel by Islamic countries – Isaiah 17; Zechariah 9 the burden of Damascus, Edom, Gaza … is building as we speak. Psalm 83 and even Ezek38/39 etc is coming fast upon nations that are today Islamic; these judgments are all coming from God to punish Islam and their supporters because of their treatment against Israel.

Apart from Ezekiel which MAY come AFTER the Rapture, these judgments are to fall BEFORE the 70th Week of Daniel. It won’t be long before it hits; and the very suggestion that ‘they’ are getting away with murder, will no longer be viable.

There are MANY Christians today in those nations who will experience those punishments. For what they already suffer under Islam, I doubt very much that any will whinge about the lack of love, care and mercy of their Heavenly Father. Just as Christians in Britain, and the U.S.A., are feeling the ‘pinch’ in their wallets because of the wickedness of world loving, Israel hating Politicians.

Yes, The Church does have a loving Heavenly Father – but to claim He does not mean what He says in Genesis 12:3; that His curse will NOT come upon those who hurt the apple of His eye, is to call Him a fickle liar. At best it is na├»ve as history itself correlates and bears witness that individuals and nations have been punished – from Babylon…Rome…Great Britain to the U.S.A. – the ‘then’ and the ‘now’ – God will not be mocked, and He stands over His Word to perform it.

As for believers in Christ, they have and still do suffer as we are still in, but not of, this fallen world – BUT – God remains faithful and pours out His Love and Mercy on the JUST; and the UN-just (whose father is the devil) benefit from His blessings upon His own people.

How many have come to Christ because they are eyewitnesses to His judgments AND His blessings to His own in the midst of those judgments. A foretaste of how multitudes will turn to Christ in the 70th Week BECAUSE of the sore judgments of God upon the world.

When all is said and done, THAT is what God’s discipline is all about, to win the lost for Christ and to bring believers to repentance.

Maranatha!
Sue

Billy said...

Laura,

As you and I agree...either the blood of Christ cleansed us of ALL our sins or it didn't.

If we are forgiven of our sins then why would God punish or even kill a Christian? Especially for the sins of another?

Christians are killed in natural disasters but those are simply accidents that anyone can be victim of in this world. We are NOT targeted!!!

Do any of you out there argue that God would kill a believer in Christ for the evil done by another? Please, please explain that to me!!!

Nathan Jones said...

Well explained, Mrs. J and Sue! I don't like it anymore than Billy and Laura, but it's a biblically historical fact that God doles out national judgments for the purpose of waking people from their spiritual slumber and bringing them to repentence.

I'm not sure how anyone can conclude for example that New Orleans is "evil" and Joplin is "good"? How do we determine what the spiritual levels of cities are?

Most likely it is that God chastens those who actually have the inclination of repenting, versus those who never will. For the latter, prophetic judgments are awaiting them as Sue explained.

Billy said...

Still waiting for an answer...

If God doles out national judgement for a President's actions against Isreal why not flood Washington D.C.?

If God doles out national judgement for gay pride parades in San Francisco why not hit San Francisco with an earthquake?

Wouldn't a direct hit against the actual sinners? Isn't God just? Yes.

So why would He kill people in Oklahoma with a tornado instead of flood Washington, D.C. or cause and earthquke in San Francisco?

So far no one has addressed this directly. Why must people in Oklahoma suffer for the sins of those in Washington and San Francisco?

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah directly, didn't he? He didn't destroy Jerusalem instead.

God will destroy Damascus directly, won't he? He won't destroy Sydney, Austrailia instead.

God will destroy the Russians and their allies when they attack Isreal, right? He won't destroy the California National Guard.

Now do you get my point? If God is passing judgement, doesn't He usually deal with it DIRECTLY AGAINST THOSE THAT HE IS ANGRY WITH???!!!

Again my standard discalimer...I do not claim to be right! I don't know...I'm trying to figure it out.

Billy said...

Made Up Scenario: I live in a place where the people up North hate our people. They curse us, they rob us, they spit on us, they beat us. The people down South love our people. They smile at us, they give us gifts, they adore us.

I’ve had it with those Northern people. I know, I’ll kill all the people in the South! That will teach those Northerners a lesson and make them change their ways!

C’mon. Wouldn’t it be the Northern people that would suffer the wrath and punishment?
Well???

PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHY IT WOULD BE JUST TO POUR WRATH ON THOSE NOT DOING THE EVIL? AREN'T THE EVILDOERS DEALT WITH DIRECTLY???

As you see, this is causing me a lot of confusion.

Nathan Jones said...

Billy, I think your confusion derives from your premise that "A" city is evil and "B" city is good. Therefore, if any natural disaster happens to "B" city then it couldn't possibly be from God, and if it did, then God couldn't be good. Am I understanding you?

"There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." - Romans 3:10-12

If every person in every location is evil, then doesn't God have the right to punish those He sees fit? And, doesn't God have the right to bless whomever with the gift of offered repentance?

Those cities we deem "evil" are not offered that repentance, and justice will come upon them swiftly and finally in time. Those who still have the hope of responding to repentance are given many reasons to come back to God in faith.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Billy

Candidly, the main problem with the present church apostasy is the ‘experiential’. It is to ignore what God ACTUALLY says and to go on feelings, reasonings and personal experiences instead.

Maybe the ‘cup’ of Washington D.C. is not yet full? (Or London’s Parliament) The Lord is long suffering and not willing that any should perish; first comes the small warnings that build into direct action.

Beside which, how do YOU know God is not dealing with individuals in Washington right now?

Our ways are NOT God’s ways, and trying to fit Him into a mould of our own understanding is to deny His rule and authority.

Egypt suffered many plagues as a direct result of what Pharaoh was doing against God’s people. Do you think God should have dealt with the rulers directly and not send His judgments upon the land of Egypt because His people, Israel? If you do – then maybe you do not approve of the way God chooses to comply with, and perform His own will? This is like the pots questioning the Potter.

As with the Middle East, God’s judgment will definitely come to fruition, and I know and accept this simply because God says He will do it, just as He has done it in the recent and ancient past.

Gen.12:1-3 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE:

AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED.

Billy, this is part of the UN-conditional Abrahamic Covenant. Unlike the Conditional Mosaic Covenant that is finished, the Abrahamic Covenant continues to this day because God has sworn to keep it regardless of what man may or may not do. The people of earth are blessed because of Israel – Paul says so! See Romans 9,10 & 11.

If, therefore, the families of earth are blessed because of Abraham (and they are) why suppose that God will not keep the more unpleasant side of His vow? If God does not keep His Word to Abrahams descendants; then how can the Church be sure He will keep His promises to her?

Because God has said it, His people should believe it, whether we understand and approve or not.

God bless you.
Sue

Billy said...

Sue said "Egypt suffered many plagues as a direct result of what Pharaoh was doing against God’s people."

Ah yes...God killed the first born of everyone and everything except the Jews protected by the blood on the doors as instructed.

That's my point. We Christians are protected by the blood of Christ from the wrath of God.

There will be Christian casualties as a result of the end times natural disasters as innocent victims. There were Christian casualties as innocent victims in the 9-11 terror attacks (if that was a judgement punishment). Yes, innocent Christians will die. (Yes, I admit nation punishments exists but my problem is when anyone proclaims "this tornado/earthquake/terror attack occurred because of this". Only God knows for SURE if there is a link or not.)

BUT NOT ONE CHRISTIAN - NOT ONE will ever be killed due to the direct wrath of God. Christians are covered by the blood of Christ from the wrath of God just as the Jews were protected from the frist born death judgement against Egypt.

We are FORGIVEN of ALL our sins, past, present and future and therefore NEVER have to suffer WRATH from God because His Son suffered it for us.

Billy said...

Sue,

By the way (I know I don't have to say this) there is nothing personal in all this. It's just lively discussion (and debate).

God bless!!!

Billy

Nathan Jones said...

A natural caveat to what you're saying concerning believers in Christ being exempt from God's wrath, Billy, and one I rarely if ever hear us Bible prophecy students talk about, is the fact that all but two of the 21 Tribulation judgments (Fifth and possibly Sixth Trumpet Judgments) will befall saved believers in Christ, and one judgment (Fifth Seal) seems particularly aimed at believers. Now, these saints aren't the Church, but why as saved believers covered by Christ's blood do they suffer under God's wrath while the Church does not? Your all's thoughts?

Billy said...

Gonna have to give that some thought. Will post later.

Nathan, if my brain explodes now it's YOUR fault.

DrNofog said...

Billy,
Just wanted to toss a thot in your direction.

In Koenig's book "Eye to Eye - Facing the Consequences of Dividing Israel" there is just way too much that would have to be a fantastic series of amazing 'coincidences'!

I can understand your thinking though. Logic would indeed dictate that Israel's immediate mortal enemies would have been wiped off the map centuries ago.

However, we are cautioned about the wisdom of what our worldly flesh would like us to believe.

Some judgments are 'reserved' for a specific time and PURPOSE!!. [Like Isa17, E38-39]

When Damascus is nuked and Lebanon collapses into the ocean, there will be no doubt that there is a God in heaven and that He is now arrayed in His battle gear to defend Israel!
;)

Billy said...

re: "Now, these saints aren't the Church, but why as saved believers covered by Christ's blood do they suffer under God's wrath while the Church does not?"

All I can say is while Christians (now or future) may suffer becasue God's wrath is being poured out on His enemies, Christians are absoultely never the TARGET of God's wrath.

The CAUSE, BLAME and RESPONSIBILITY for the Christian's suffering belongs solely on the enemies of God that are the target of the wrath.

If God ever TARGETED His wrath on a saved Christian, what does that say about the absolute, unconditional, eternal forgiveness of the sacrifice on the cross? Wouldn't that mean the cross wasn't enough? Wouldn't that mean some of my sins weren't forgiven after all? Wouldn't that mean that I still need to a bit of punishment now and then even though I'm a beliver in Christ? Now we're treading into the catholic purgatory realm.

THAT is why I am so adament about saying God's wrath is NEVER for Christians.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Billy

First a big (((HUG)))

Believers are not being judged for sin; sin is no longer an issue, not even for the unbeliever. FAITH in Christ, or lack of it, is now the issue because the debt of sin has been paid in full – it just needs application.

The point I was making about Egypt is although it was Pharaoh who offended God, the citizens of Egypt also bore the brunt of the plagues. i.e. Washington DC is like Pharaoh, and the Egyptian people like the victims of Katrina. God had separated Israel to Goshen; unlike Christians who are plainly IN the world though citizens of heaven; when it rains, believers get wet along with the unbelievers.

The point Nathan makes is valid. The Tribulation saints, washed in Christ’s Blood will die in their many thousands as a DIRECT result of God’s wrath that is targeting rebels. If the 144,000 were not sealed to protect them from harm, they too could die. There is no avoiding 100 lb hailstones chucking it down, or avoiding falling into a chasm created by the earthquakes.

Many believers will also die from the droughts and famines, wild beasts will rend them along with the ‘targets’. Being beheaded for the Faith will be the best option. So they are shown under the altar, in their white robes to wait for the rest of the Tribulation saints to be killed.

The big difference is that death has lost its sting for the Christian, as horrible as it is for those left to mourn, to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord.

God bless my brother
Sue

Billy said...

I think I've said all I can (and should) so I'm going to shut up at this point.

(Hey, who was that out there pumping their fist and yelling "Yes!"?)

:)

Disciple said...

Dear Billy

Just wondering about Annanias and Saphira in Acts 5. They were Christians weren't they? yet they suffered at God's hand for their sin, didn't they?

Consider that nothing happens outside of God's ultimate control. Doesn't God have ultimate control over the weather and does he not intervene many times? To say that Christians dying by a freak of nature is to be expected is to say that it wasn't God's Will for them to die but the "weather" took them.

"It is once appointed for a man to die". This means that GOD decides when we die, not because of freak of nature.

If we use that argument we could say that God used the weather to kill a Christian because it was his/her time.

I agree that God does not kill a Christian because of his/her sin which is covered by the blood of Jesus, but sometimes there are still consequences of our sin - like David, Bathsheba and their son who died.

The story of Sodom and Gomorra tell us that God will not judge a City if there are a certain percentage of believers there. If there are few believers then He will first take them out and then judge the City.

Dr. Kevin R. Linam said...

Look always to Israel, judgement on God's people and judgement on those who seek to destroy God's people and their covenant land! This must be our focus!

http://survivalteam.myefoods.com

Please prepare your family for anything-everything! Prepare them for eternity as well, Jesus is the way! The only way!

carlene said...

I enjoyed reading this all of it, including billys.