Monday, October 17, 2011

Deadline October 21: Harold Camping's Last Call

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Just who is this Harold Camping who is proclaiming the world will end on October 21, 2011?

On Saturday, October 8, 2011, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on their "God First" program. During the hour long interview we discussed the many failed attempts of date-setters to declare an accurate date for the Lord's return, especially concerning Harold Camping as his October 21, 2011, end of the world deadline approaches.

Blessings to Israel Ministries

Brian Thomas: Greetings to all in the wonderful name of our great Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Nathan, welcome to the program!

Nathan Jones: It is great to be here, Brian! I hope your audience knows what a blessing you are. I have really been impressed with your dedication to the Lord, your deep research, your articles and all your ministry endeavors. I believe Blessings to Israel Ministries is a blessing not just to Israel, but to all believers in Christ.

Brian Thomas: Well, thank you, I greatly appreciate that.

Harold Camping's Bio

Brian Thomas: We are going to talk today about the dangers of date setting, and in particular as it relates to Harold Camping. Give us a little background on Harold Camping. Exactly who is he and what is the history behind him setting the date for the end of the world at October 21, 2011?

Nathan Jones: I guess you'd have to have been living in a closet for the last 20 years not to know who Harold Camping is. I remember back in my college years in the early 90's working at a T.G.I. Friday's. It seemed like Camping was on the news every night on all the TVs around the restaurant. I remember learning about Harold Camping then and my coworkers where all talking about this guy who was saying that the end of the world was coming.

At the time, Camping believed the Lord would return on September 6, 1994. It seemed the whole world was watching him then. He seemed to have all his "P's & Q's" together and he seemed to know exactly what the Bible had to say about Jesus' return. It was like Camping had some hidden understanding of the Bible that nobody else had. But, well, September 6 came and went and Camping became a big laughing stock and everybody had some kind of joke about him. They all sighed a sigh of relief and many of them moved on. I haven't heard much about Harold Camping for almost 15 years or so since his 1994 failed prediction.

Harold Camping is an older gentleman, reaching his 90's actually, but he spent many years as the head of the Family Radio Network. The Family Radio Network has 150 radio stations across the United States. Many people listen to his radio stations. He's got a lot of money and has put a lot of effort into the study of end times. His passion is a lot like Lamb and Lion Ministries' passion which is to proclaim the soon return of Jesus Christ. Camping feels like he should proclaim the soon return of Jesus Christ as well, but he does it by a number of different means that aren't quite biblically sound.

Camping's spent a lot of time proclaiming Jesus' soon return and the end of the world. He even wrote a book titled 1994 where he set the date of the Lord's return like I said earlier at September 6, 1994. The Lord didn't return, so he wrote another book called Time Has an End, setting yet another "absolute" date of May 21, 2011. I am sure we all remember earlier this year the whole world again was just as interested in Harold Camping as they were back in 1994. That date, too, came and went and the whole world laughed yet again. They laughed at you and me as Christians, they laughed at all the Bible prophecy ministries, they laughed at the Bible, and even worse they laughed at Jesus Christ.

After the second failed prediction, Harold Camping got really sick and kind of disappeared. I give it to the man, he really believes what he preaches. But now, he has set yet another new date and this is the last "drop dead" date. Supposedly, in October 21, 2011, Jesus will return to end the world, and as you know this is the very month. We'll get into that more later why that can't be. But, I think that this is it for Harold Camping. If he doesn't get this date right, then his credibility should be totally shot and his health is just declining so much so that this will be the end of him.

Brian Thomas: Yes, I think you're right. He has as you mentioned from his radio stations a huge amount of wealth. My understanding based on a Fox News Report that in 2009 his non-profit organization filed with the IRS that it received 18.3 million dollars in donations. That is along with assets of over $104 million including $34 million in stocks and securities. So, this guy is a date setter who has millions of dollars to throw around and promote his dates, and he really gets a lot of his own airtime.

Nathan Jones: Before last May's predicted date, Harold Camping had billboards up all over the country telling people about it. He had T-shirts made. He had bumper stickers as well, all pointing people to his website I remember earlier this year just walking down the street and the Camping followers who have almost like a crazed cult mentality were handing out their really complicated brochures filled with this tiny 9 point font, I mean you wouldn't even want to read it, explaining why this is the end.

These poor people sold their houses and they gave up their life savings, for they thought it was the end of the world. Why did they need their belongings anymore? So, they all gave it all to Harold Camping. His money rests on the backs of people who believe him so much that they were willing to give up everything and give the money to him.

Brian Thomas: Right, that is really sad. The billboards were all over the place, 5,000 in my understanding. I think there was like 20 RV's. As a matter of fact, one of those billboards was about five miles from my house, and so I would see it every morning on the way to work. It had the May 21st judgment date on it. Harold Camping has a lot of money to throw around and sadly there are a lot people who follow him.

The Camping of the 1800s

Brian Thomas: Harold Camping's method of date setting, it seems to parallel a theory that was developed centuries ago. Can you speak a little bit on the historical precedent which Harold Camping may have used to come up with his method of date setting?

Nathan Jones: Well, sure, these date setters are all the same. Every generation seems to have one. American history is resplendent with date setters. One of the main signs that Jesus told us about in Matthew 24 so that we will recognize the end times is by the amount of false prophets and false teachers that will have come into the world. Camping is definitely one of them, and there will be many others throughout history especially as we get closer and closer to the Lord's return.

If we go back to Vermont in the 1820's, there was a gentleman who was a farmer by the name of William Miller. He believed that Jesus would come back on March 21, 1844. He took the passage in Daniel 8:14 that read, "...Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" and then he just ran with it. Miller proclaimed that 2,300 days must mean 2,300 years, and well if the sanctuary was cleansed in 457 BC then Jesus would be coming back on March 21, 1844. Well, as you know, this is the 21st Century, so it didn't happen.

Miller again, the same as Camping has done, came up with another date. He admitted his first date was wrong, but set another date for the Lord's return at October 22, 1844. Back then, word of this had reached all over not just this country, but much of the world. Everybody at that time period was riveted by this date, and they were getting really excited. But, when the second date passed and nothing happened, the newspapers called it "The Great Disappointment," and obviously it was. A lot of people were disappointed.

We saw the same with Harold Camping, a lot of people gave Miller all their money to warn people about the end of the world. The Millerites as they were called actually went out into the hills in white robes just looking up to heaven waiting to be raptured, but it didn't happen. Like Harold Camping's health is declining now, William Miller's also declined greatly pretty quickly, and he died in disgrace in 1849. That is a sad story. Doesn't it seem like people almost like being deceived?

Later from the number of Miller followers, there was one woman in particular named Ellen G. White. She was a teenage girl at the time, and she had really latched onto Miller's date setting. What most date setters do when nothing happens is they spiritualize the event, and White declared that something instead must have happened in Heaven. She came up with this idea that instead of the Lord coming to earth on October 22, 1844, that God instituted an "Investigative Judgment." In other words, Jesus locked Himself up in Heaven and He got out these books and like Santa Claus he began picking who was good and who was bad. According to White, He's been doing that ever since then.

White also blamed the disaster that Jesus didn't come on the Church, saying that since the Church worships the Lord on Sunday and not Saturday then therefore that's the reason why Jesus did not come back when Miller predicted. She believed God is mad at us because we are worshipping Him on the "wrong" day.

A new group of Christians grew up around Ellen White's teachings and are now called the Seven Day Adventists. If you ever run into them, you'll quickly learn their primary belief seems to be wrapped around worshipping on Saturday only. To them, if you are not worshipping on Saturday but are worshipping on Sunday that is in actuality taking the Mark of the Beast and you will be going to Hell. She kind of kept William Miller's beliefs going, and until this day there are plenty of Seven Day Adventist out there who still are pretty much tied to William Miller. This cult type thinking continues on well past the date setters' dates and even their deaths.

Brian Thomas: That is quite interesting. What I typically find, and you can confirm this, when it comes to the Seven Day Adventists they don't really put their identity up front as far that they are part of that group or denomination. They seem to kind of slide their identity under the radar. They kind of start talking with you and teaching you something, and then you later on find out what they actually believe and what they are a part of.

Nathan Jones: Oh, yes, they really love Bible prophecy and they have lots of conferences. I went to one of them and had no idea it was a Seven Day Adventist conference. Really, you get to the last day and – boom! – they pop it on you that they are the Seven Day Adventists. That's when they tell you that if you don't go to their church and worship God on Saturdays then you are not saved. You will need to recommit and then join the Seven Day Adventist Church because they are the "true" church. You know, if you really believe in what you are saying then why do you have to hide it until the end of your conference?

Now, there are some good believers among the Seven Day Adventists, but I believe many are deceived by this Saturday only doctrine they've created. I've met a number of them, and there are many who have the same Harold Camping type mind-set. They just can't let go of these false prophets and what they teach.

Brian Thomas: Right, we are definitely in an age of deception, without a doubt.

Nathan Jones: Amen, yes! It's just like Jesus said would happen before His return.

Brian Thomas: Absolutely, an increase in false teachers are a sign of the end times.

In the next part of this series "Deadline October 21," Brian and I will marvel at Harold Camping's blatant errors concerning his interpretation of the Bible.


son of thunder said...

Is it just coincidence that Miller's and Camping's dates (Oct. 21 & 22)are only separated by 24 hours (ignoring the 167 years)?

I don't believe that there's anything to it, but it's definitely interesting

lily said...


Psalm 105:1-5
"O Give thanks unto the Lord; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people. Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works. Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the Lord. Seek the Lord, and his strength: seek his face evermore. Remember his marvellous works that he hath done; his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth;"

I pray you hear the meaning of these verses. Love in Christ.

Expected Imminently said...



Billy said...

I AM GOING TO MAKE A PROCLOMATION ABOUT THE "END OF THE WORLD" AS WE KNOW IT! I GUARANTEE THIS WILL COME TRUE! When Israel signs a peace treaty with the antichrist the world as we know it will end in 7 years.

Yo, Camping...try this one next time and you'll get it right!

Camping is like the Bible Code idiot. The Bible Code dummy (based on reviews and my own brief browsing of the book) said his "code" says Obama will beat Sarah Palin in 2012 (LOL-Palin isn't running), Osama bin Laden will try to kill us with stolen nukes (LOL-bin Laden is dead) and Obama will become the savior of the U.S. (well...maybe in a post Rapture world with no Christians, who knows, maybe that one may work out)

What a bunch of losers!

Rodney said...

The Church began with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 1:8, and Acts 2:1-11. The Church Age or Dispensation will end with another outpouring of the Holy Spirit occurring on the house of Israel as recorded in Ezekiel 39:29 in the aftermath of the Gog/Magog battle. "Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD".

It is interesting to note, that in Acts 2:14-18 the Apostle Peter describes the outpouring on that day as fulfillment of Joel 2:28, yet clearly this was only a partial fulfillment. The next verses that follow direct us to the time just prior to the Tribulation. "And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come"-Act 2:19,20.

The same language is used in Malachi 4:5,6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

It is clear to me, that the expiration of the Church Age will occur simultaneously with Israel acknowledging the Lord God in the aftermath of the Gog/Magog battle. A time of refeshing will have come to Israel, the partial blindness will be removed as they will begin to prepare for the coming Kingdom Age, and their coming King Yeshua.
I believe the Temple will be built to honor the Lord, that he might dwell among his people and to be a testimony to the enemies of Israel round about.

Rodney said...

Though it seems that I am obsessed with the Gog/Magog battle of Ezekiel 38/39, it was the Lord that did draw me to this prophecy and it has been my focus many years. It is clear that many nations will know the wrath of God, this is of course is not part of my zeal. I am however zealous to see the redemption of Israel, for when the Lord God pours out his Spirit upon the house of Israel, our time will have been completed, and the mystery of the Church finished. This I do long for with all that is in me and that the remaining time we have left be spent in seeking the lost.

Billy said...

IF I remember correctly, Dr. Reagan said in the DVD that Prophecy Partners received this month that Gog and Magog were two different wars out of the 9 end time wars. I guess I need to watch the program again to refresh my memory.

I was fascinated at that. I always thought they were one and the same.

Nathan Jones said...

I'd wondered about that, too, Son of Thunder.

Billy, Dr. Reagan refers to them as two separate wars, the Gog-Magog War of Ezekiel 38-39 and the Second Gog-Magog War of Rev. 20. For more info, check out The Wars of the End Times.

Thanks, E.I.!

Ev-rem said...

Nathan i see you talk about worship on 2 days, can you tell me where in the bible that says Sunday is a Day of worship like the Sabbath Day that God Bless and Sanctify.

I dont go to Church but i do study the Bible and Worship everyday but you sound very confusing. Because in Isaiah 8:20 says "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

The Sabbath is in the 4th Commandment so i think you a deceive by the Devil becasue there is no light in you.


Nathan Jones said...

Ev-rem, this is a comments section, not a place to post your articles, so I deleted your other entries. Sounds like you're a Seventh Day Adventist or one of Weinland's followers.

The early Church struggled with whether to follow the Jewish law or not (Acts 15). Peter concluded the discussion by saying in verse 10-11, "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

The Book of Hebrews went on to affirm that the Mosaic Law was no more, for a better salvation was available through Jesus Christ. Those who adhered to the Mosaic Law were labeled Judaisers, whom the Apostle Paul had strong words for in Galatians 5. Paul also repeatedly wrote about the freedom from the Law that grace provides (some examples: Rom. 6; 11:6; 1 Cor. 8). And so, the Early Church had no problem theologically moving the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday in remembrance of the Lord’s resurrection and to differentiate their services from Judaism.

The questionable Seventh Day Adventist denomination has sadly built their whole identity around a Saturday Sabbath (more info). Technically, though, they don’t celebrate the Sabbath on the correct day according to the Jews. The Jewish day starts at Friday’s sundown (3 visible stars in the sky) and ends the following Saturday at sunset. If the Adventists were to observe the Sabbath properly, their worship would be on Friday night in Western time. Also, there were more than just 10 Mosaic Laws – 613! – and the Adventists never tell us to abstain from shellfish nor mix different materials in our clothes. Much of those laws were given by God to help a child-like slave nation survive in the unfamiliar desert.

Biblically taught, believers in Christ are free from the Mosaic Law, even the Fourth Commandments requirement about keeping the Sabbath on a particular day. Romans 8:2-4 tells us that Jesus fulfilled and freed us from the Law.

The Mosaic Law's been replaced with: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." - Mark 12:30-31

Because of this principle of grace, it becomes not just one day that we should set apart for the Lord, but every minute of every day. In many ways we’ve become even more responsible in the Church Age, for the Fourth Commandment’s worship has been expanded beyond just one simple day. Yet, see how grace frees us from the Mosaic Law and so enables us to fulfill it through Jesus Christ?

What's great about living under grace is that we can worship God freely. If one wishes to keep the Sabbath, or the Lord's Day or Wednesdays or whatever day or minute of the week to worship - we can freely. That's what grace is all about, and we can praise the Lord for.

Ev-rem said...

I told you Nathan that am not an Adventist but i base my believes on the Bible. If you say the Law has ended then maybe you should send your wife over so i can sleep with or we can Kill or murder anybody or worship any God.

You see the 10 Commandment had 2 tablets of stone, the first 4 of the commandment provides your Love towards God and 6 of which your love towards your neighbour.

You said you keep Sunday for Resurrection of Christ but the bible Say that Baptism is the symbol of resurrections.

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. Romans 6:1-4

And the Deciples did not gather together afta Jesus Death to start Sunday worship the disciples at this time did not believe that the resurrection had taken place (Mark 16:14). They had met there “for fear of the Jews” and had the doors bolted. When Jesus appeared in their midst, He rebuked them “because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.” There is no implication that they counted Sunday as a holy day. Only eight texts in the New Testament mention the first day of the week; none of them imply that it is holy.

There are 2 Law the Moral Law which is the 10 Commandment and the Ceremonial Laws which mainly deals with sacrifice that Christ ended on the Cross.

And Jesus Said in Mark 2:27 - that the Sabbath was made for MAN and Not MAN for the Sabbath. It didn't Say that Sabbath was Made for the Jews or the Seventh Day Adventist. You See Nathan All the Prophets, Disciples, Apostles [Acts 17:2, Acts 13:13,14. Acts 16:13, Acts 18:4], Mary, Gentiles [“So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.” “On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God” (Acts 13:42, 44, emphasis added). “And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4)]. and even Jesus Keep the Sabbath not Sunday. Sabbath was already there before God gave the Law to Moses [Exodus 16:23-30]. God Created the Sabbath, Not Moses or who ever you think did. So if you don't keep the Sabbath like Jesus then you a not a Christian.

You talk about Grace, Yes i agree with you that we are only save by Grace. But you cannot save by Grace and continue to Sin. When Jesus Save the Prostitute Woman, Jesus Commanded her to GO AND SIN NO MORE [John 8:11]. So what she was doing was breaking Gods Law. Because the Bible Says Sin is the Transgression of the Law. But the Law cannot save you but it act as a mirror for you to see the sins you have. In the Book of James it says if you break one of the Commandment you break all [James 2:10]. so if you say you are save by Grace and you continue to sin which break Gods Law, then i think you are in the wrong position my friend.

And why did you change from Saturday to Sunday. You have no authority to change only God can. You know wan Characteristics of the Beast in the Bible is that " TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS",

"He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time." [Daniel 7:25]……

and that's what you just Did.

Jesus says IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENT [John 14:15]. DO you Love Jesus?

I told you am not a Seventh -Day Adventist or in any denominations but i study the Bible and i will make sure to defend the Truth from people Like you who tries to Confuse Gods people.

Remember Jesus Loves you Brother

Ev-rem said...

And Remember:

Mark 13:32

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Billy said...

Ev-rem said "You talk about Grace, Yes i agree with you that we are only save by Grace. But you cannot save by Grace and continue to Sin."

Ev-rem also said about Nathan "The Sabbath is in the 4th Commandment so i think you a deceive by the Devil becasue there is no light in you."

Ev-rem, does your Bible say judge not lest ye be judged? You judged Nathan's salvation status!!! Have you not sinned? Does that mean you are not saved by grace? That's what I could conclude from those comments of yours. That comment is similar to the opponents of Jesus accusing him of being evil which prompted Jesus to reply with His house divided rebuttal. How can you say there is no light in Nathan? Look at the light of his works via this ministry. Is that not good fruit? Can evil put forth good fruit? Please retract that comment.

Ev-rem, true, Jesus wants us to repent and sin no more. Absolutely. But we are trapped in mortal flesh bodies with a sin nature. I don't know about you, but I, as a Christian, still sin because of that. I don't want to. But the flesh is weak. That is why the blood of Christ has to cover ALL sins, those before a person is a Christian (or not of the age or mental capicity of accountability) or after.

I'm not saying you can be a murderer and continue to murder after professing to be a Christian. But Christians will still get angry, greedy, swear, etc. It is in our nature. That nature to sin will thankfully be removed from us once we get our eternal perfected bodies. Until then, we will always be in need of the blood of Christ.

Ev-rem said...

Billy i do not Judge Nathan, but only what the Bible Says. Am a Sinner But I will stand on the Truth and point out error's.

I told you what i say is what is written. The Bible Says, for ALL HAVE SIN AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. BUT GOD HAS ITS STANDARD. IF WE WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN WE HAVE TO MEET THESE STANDARDS. We cannot do things of our own knowledge and think that this is good and follow. When the Bible Says THOU SHALL NOT it means DO NOT. Not that we can break alittle bit of it. Cos thats what Eve did in the Garden of Eden and Sin enter the World.

Mathew 7:21 says "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The Will of His Father is His Standards, And I believe that in following His Commandment if doing His Will. Because Jesus Say if we Love Him Keep His Commandment. That is His Will. That’s what He wants us to do.

Also those who will enter heaven are the saints that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Fogiveme if you think am Judging you But as the 3 Hebrew Boys Stand for the God of Heaven who Created Heaven and earth in Six days and Rest of the Sabbath Day, I WILL STAND FOR THE TRUTH.


Billy said...

Ev-rem said "Am a Sinner But I will stand on the Truth and point out error's."

Pointing out what you believe are errors is one thing. Saying someone has "no light" in them is another. You shouldn't do that. Especially a fellow Christian doing the Lord's work better than most.


The standard which determines if we go to Heaven is do you believe in Jesus as your savior PERIOD

Ev-rem said...


When I say No light I was referring to test in Isaiah 8:20 which says "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Since He is against the Law therefore this Verse says there is no light in Him. If you disagree then its between you and God because that’s His test and His Book.

I agree with you that we must Believe in Christ but you just can't believe and go your own way. You can't say you believe in Christ and Break His Commandment because that's His Character. You see Bill Christian Life is not Part of your life, where you only go to church every Sunday, it is a way of Life, it includes your daily activity like eat, drink, talking …etc.

Nathan Jones said...

Ev-rem, when you begin following all 613 laws that God gave Moses instead of just the 10 you think are extra special, then you can justify beating your chest and declaring yourself the truth watchman for God.

I'm sorry, brother, that you're stuck under the Law and don't comprehend the grace we live under now. Christ fulfilled the Law. Read Hebrews to understand that freedom in Christ to complete your understanding of salvation. Otherwise, you're walking around an incomplete Christian.

Ev-rem said...

Brother Nathan,

I told you earlier, there are 2 sets of Law the Moral Law which is the 10 Commandment and the ceremonial Laws which is what you are talking about. The ceremonial Laws is the one that Jesus nail on the Cross because today we cannot sacrifice Lamb to forgive our sins. The 10 Commandment is the Character of God because He wrote it with His finger and gave it to Moses. These Law was establish before Creation.

May I not beat my Chest but Let the Bible Speak for itself so you can understand:

Once a young rich man came to Jesus and asked -"What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus replied -"Keep the Commandments." The young man asked -"Which ones?" And Jesus began quoting some of the Ten Commandments which God wrote into tablets of stone with His own finger. (Matthew 19)

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them,he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Mathew 5:17-19

"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him," Hebrew 5:9

"Blessed are those who do His commandments,[a] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city". Revelation 22:14

"If you Love me Keep My Commandment" John 14:15

Natha Said : "I'm sorry, brother, that you're stuck under the Law and don't comprehend the grace we live under now."

Brother notice the Apostle Paul's answer to this question - "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in SIN so that GRACE may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2) Christians who are forgiven and under grace are not to continue to practice sin. Remember -"SIN IS the transgression of the Law." (1 John 3:4)

"Though you were slaves of SIN, you BECAME OBEDIENT from the heart to that FORM OF TEACHING to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:17)

This "form of teaching" is the "works prepared beforehand" for us to "walk in." It is God's holy standard for Christian conduct. Remember Paul's teaching, -" What matters keeping the Commandments (1 Corinthians 7:19)

If we do not submit to God's STANDARD we will create our own. We will come to believe that we can please God and develop His Character through the precepts of mortal man. Jesus calls this "VAIN WORSHIP." (Matthew 15:9)

Nathan Jones said...

This is the last breath I'm going to waste on a Judaizer, Ev-rem, so you can take it or leave it.

You're study of the subject of grace is incomplete. And, you pick and choose which Laws to follow or not (who said keeping one's fabrics separate was done away with???). While your verses are good, you leave out others that balance them, mostly the entire book of Romans and Hebrews which tell us that we're incapable of being perfect and need the perfect Jesus Christ's sacrifice in our place for our sins. The Law is an indicator only, not a method of salvation.

Obviously, we as Christians are to to try our best by the Holy Spirit not to sin. That's a "duh." But, we will sin even when we do not (even the "Super Apostle" Paul admitted that).

You misunderstand me. Loving the Lord will all our being and our neighbors as ourselves encapsulates all that the Law means and enables us to fulfill it. That's why even the 10 Commandments as a form of Law was done away with. They are only an indicator of what sin is. Mark 12:30-31 is the fulfillment of the Law in Jesus Christ, enabling the Christian to live as God wills us to live in righteousness.

As for worshipping on Saturday, you have the freedom in Christ to do so. Others have the freedom to worship on Sunday or whatever day of the week. Jesus freely worshipped the Father whenever and seldom at the Temple. You therefore then have no right to go around beating people with OT Law concerning worship once made for ancient Israel that's passed by Christ's command. And, you will have to account for that to Christ one day.

Ev-rem said...

Nathan If you read my previous Post i said we are not save by Law but by Grace but the law is there to guide us to know what Sin is. so we cannot do away with the Law.

And the Apostle who Wrote the Book of Romans and Hebrew Keep the Law including Sabbath.

So The God in Heaven is the Same Yesterday, today and in the Future.

He Has save us by His Grace but he said if you Love Him Keep His Commandment. Not the Jews one but His Commandment.

And He has only one Day that he Bless it, Sanctify it and Rest and that is the Sabbath Day. that day is different from any other Day. Because on the Other Day he Created everything but Sabbath is different.[Genesis 2:1-3]

As Christians we are to Worship God everyday in Prayer, in eating, drinking, our conversations, ....or everything we do. But Sabbath is special for God.

Thankyou Nathan, I believe God will help you Preach the Truth to your Church. Tell them to Keep Gods Commandment and the Sabbath.

God Bless Brother

Ev-rem said...

Ohhh Brother Nathan Just for your information even Jesus freely Worship on the other days as you said but on the Sabbath Day He Keep it Holy.

"So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read." Luke 4:16

If Jesus Keep His Sabbath and His Commandment, Why don't you do the Same?

Since you are keeping Sunday Maybe you should Ask the Pope to help you with since its His below:

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

Since you not preaching the Truth, YOU should be the one accounted for to Christ one day because you keep the tradition of Man NOT God's.

God Bless Brother Nathan