Tuesday, December 27, 2011

Interview by August: The Rapture Contrasted to the Second Coming

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Is the Rapture not the Second Coming of Christ?

On Saturday, November 19, 2011, I was interviewed by host August Rosado of the BlogTalkRadio show Signs of the Times. August is a Bible prophecy teacher and preacher and founder of a ministry called Today in Bible Prophecy. He has and continues to be a personable guest on our television program Christ in Prophecy. He and I contrasted the Rapture with the Second Coming.


August Rosado and Nathan Jones


The Rapture and Second Coming Contrasted

Nathan Jones: Here is a hard concept for many folks to accept, but the Rapture is a separate event from Jesus' Second Coming. It's a different event. You can read about the Rapture and you can read about the Second Coming and realize those verses are talking about two totally different events. Now, you could take it that the Second Coming is one event but in two phases, but I prefer to think of them as separate events, though.

For example, we know when the Second Coming is because there has to be seven years of Tribulation beforehand. There has to be an Antichrist who comes on the world beforehand. There has to be 21 judgments that befall the planet beforehand. The Bible even gives us the time calculations so that we know exactly that it will be seven years or two 42 months of 30 days each until Jesus will come at His Second Coming. So there may be plenty of signs for the Second Coming, but there are no signs that have to happen before the Rapture of the Church as it's an imminent event.

August Rosado: Yes, because if we look at the Rapture and the Second Coming, the Rapture is when Jesus is coming for the Church. The Second Coming is when He is coming back with His Church. The Rapture and the Second Coming are separated by Daniel's Seventieth Week of prophecy, or what we would call the "Tribulation Period."

Nathan Jones: I would say that there are 10 differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming.

  1. With the Rapture believers meet Christ in the air. Christ does not come to the earth. He is up in the air and we go up to Him. But, in the Second Coming, Christ returns to the earth and lands on the Mount of Olives we are told, and He meets believers who are already here on the earth.

  2. At the Rapture the Mount of Olives is unchanged, but when Jesus comes back at the Second Coming He is going to split the Mount of Olives. This mountain is currently right outside of Jerusalem, and a new valley will be formed just East of Jerusalem.

  3. At the Rapture, living believers will get new glorified bodies, but at the Second Coming the living believers still on the earth remain in their same earthly body. These are two different groups of believers here.

  4. At the Rapture, believers go to Heaven, but at the Second Coming glorified believers come with Christ from Heaven back down to earth.

  5. At the Rapture, the world is left unjudged and living in sin, but at the Second Coming when Jesus comes back He brings justice and judgment.

  6. The Rapture depicts a deliverance of the Church from wrath, but at the Second Coming it depicts the deliverance of believers who are already enduring wrath.

  7. With the Rapture no signs precede it, but with the Second Coming there are so many signs that precede it. As a matter of fact, we even know the exact day the Tribulation begins, which is when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty with Israel (Dan. 9:26-27), and goes exactly seven years to when it ends.

  8. We know the Rapture is revealed only in the New Testament, but with the Second Coming we are given all sorts of references in both the Old and New Testament.

  9. The Rapture deals with only those of us who are saved, while the Second Coming deals with both the saved and the unsaved. Jesus comes as a relief for those who will be been saved during the Tribulation, but comes as a terrible judgment on those who have continued to rebel during that time.

  10. And, after the Rapture, Satan remains free on this earth. He's pretty much thinking he's ruling and reigning it because he has his number one man the Antichrist who will form a global government. But, at the Second Coming, Satan is defeated and is thrown into the Abyss for a thousand years.

Clearly from these comparisons, the Rapture and the Second Coming are totally different events.

August Rosado: When you look at the prophecies concerning the Second Coming, especially in the book of Revelation, you look in Revelation 19:14 and it tells us, "The armies that were in heaven followed Him upon white horses clothed in fine linen, white and clean." That has to refer to the saints who were raptured seven years earlier, coming back with Him seven years later. Zechariah 14:4 says the Messiah's feet touch the Mount of Olives and it splits. So, yes, you would have to come to the conclusion that the Rapture is a separate event from the Second Coming, separated by a seven year period of Tribulation. It forces one to conclude that.


Busy in Heaven

Nathan Jones: Yes, the Church has to be in Heaven during those seven years because the Bible tells us just what the Saints will be doing in Heaven during those seven years as God's wrath is being poured out on the earth.

The first thing that we will do once believers are raptured to Heaven is that we will participate in a judgment by God. Now, this isn't a judgment to determine if we are going to Hell or not. We are already in Heaven with Christ, and that means we are already saved. No, it's a judgment of the just to determine our degree of reward. You can find the description in 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 19:6-9. So, there will be a judgment for the Church, but it will be in Heaven and it will be for our rewards in Heaven. The Bible talks about fancy clothing, crowns that depict how we have served Him, and it talks about new names. I won't be called Nathan anymore. I will get a new name. My wife says that Nathan is a nerd name, so I guess it's good it'll be changing! But, all of these rewards will be used to worship and glorify what Christ has done through us.

The second event the Bible says well be doing can be found in Revelation 19:7-9 where it talks about the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. This event is about how the Church — the Bride of Christ — as we are called, will be married to the Lord. You know, I don't know what that means exactly, but we do know there is a spiritual marriage between us and Christ, a reunification with us and our Savior who saved our souls.

The third event we will experience after the Judgment of the Just and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is that we will prepare to go with Christ back down to earth at the end of the seven years so Jesus can wage the Battle of Armageddon. Just by speaking, Jesus defeats His enemies. It says like we read in Revelation 19:14 that we will return with Him on horses. I don't know what kind of horses these are, they could be angels in animal form, or they could be real horses. But, the text says that we will be arrayed in white robes and will be following Jesus back to earth.

This third event shows that we can't be following Jesus back to earth if the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same because we would then have to simultaneously be going up and coming back at the exact same time. That just doesn't make any sense. Anyway, those are the three known events that we will be doing up in Heaven while the Tribulation is engulfing the world.


In the next part of this Interview by August, we'll look at some of the signs that point to this being the season of the Lord's return.

19 comments:

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Nathan

Reading this is so encouraging. 'Thing's' slip away into the shadows as the Blessed Hope takes centre stage. It is so plain and straightforward, why oh why do so many believers resist this fantastic truth is beyond my ken.

Is Dr.Reagan alright? It all seems so quiet, I can't help wondering where you are; is all well at L&L?

Lifting you up and praising The Lord for you all.

God bless everyone with His Love, His Truth, His Peace, His healing touch. Keep looking up!

Also missing DrNoFog!Hang on to Jesus Susie and take small steps. Rodney read, mark and learn these articles and grow in Jesus.

Maranatha!
Sue
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Susie said...

What an exhilerating article!!! Come quickly Lord!!!!!

Sue, hope ur feeling better.
Nathan, how r things?

Expected Imminently said...

Dear Susie

I’m better than I was thank you. The pain in my back has eased, so thank you for praying.

How are you doing with your non-smoking?

It is so hard to break a dependency but a friend of mine, after a lifetime on ‘fags’ did as I suggested for you to do and she never looked back.

I was dependent on prescribed medication; when I was better the doc still gave me a script for them because I had become addicted. I said if I don’t need them, I don’t want to take them. She wouldn’t let me go ‘cold turkey’ as I wanted, but gradually I had to reduce the dose.

It was funny in a way because I was a ‘fly in the ointment’ to those who are on programmes for years and it only took me a few weeks. It wasn’t pleasant but with Jesus on my side – I did it!
So can you for Jesus.

Heavenly Father, I pray You will bless, strengthen and sustain Susie with Your will and determination to be an over-comer for Jesus; and grant Susie total release from all the effects of this addiction and raise her up into newness of life and for your glory. In Jesus’ Name!

Susie said...

Sue, thank u very much. Its been since the 21st that i quit. I cheated once and that scared me but i prayed and spent most of the day yesterday in the word finding alot if strength in psalms 37 and james ch 1..... praise God i know i am already free!
Very glad to hear ur feeling better. I believe the Lord healed u. Thanks so much for ur support in our precious Lord! Thanks be to God for healing, deliverence and especially for the IMMINENT RAPTURE!!!! :) :) :)

Expected Imminently said...

Well done Susie - great going! May Susie I suggest you put aside the money you would have spent on cancer sticks and then buy yourself some really special perfume. Your sense of smell will return and then you will really appreciate it.

'My' perfume is 'Paris' by Yves Saint Laurent. I only use a little every day, kept in the cool and dark it lasts me about 3-4 years!
My grandchildren always tell me how nice I smell when we have a cuddle! :)

Everyone suits something different. So get saving and sniffing as you Praise the Lord for each victory. He LOVES a sweet smelling savour. :D

Look forward to sniffing the coming spring flowers with a new 'nose'.;)

((hugs))

Susie said...

Sue, lovely idea! My favorite is 5th ave by eliz arden! Yes im glad after 32 yrs to be loosed of this chain in my life. My biggest challenge is inactivity due go my temporary physical limitations. But i know God will take care of me. Soon i will be training as a warrior to return with Him for the last stand to rule and reign! Yay!!!!!!! Maranatha!!!

friend said...

Hello, Just wanted to add a comment about smelling sweet aromas. Many times throughout my prayer life I will get whiff of the most wonderful 'Lilac' like aroma and coming out of prayer I always say, "I think I smelled Jesus". I know this sounds odd but that was my thought. Years later I came across a sight on flowers of Israel and one was called Abraham's Bush--guess what the scent is similar to--yep--Lilac. Wow!!! Isn't that amazing? So not only will you soon have a better sense of smell, you may soon be enjoying the precious aroma of our Lord. God Bless!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone noticed how here in America Christians are seen as bigots,intolerant,closeminded,judgemental etc.? This is so persecution-and that is just what 'they' say Christians are doing. If it is fine for everyone to believe the way they want to, then why isn't okay for me as a Christian to believe the way I want to? This is insane and I am getting angrier and angrier every time I hear or read it in the media. I pray I can find forgiveness in my heart for the persecution I am feeling. Thanks for listening.
P.S. I so want the Rapture to be true.

Susie said...

Friend.... how wonderful a comment. Thank u for such lovely and encouraging words.

Anon.... i suppose these things going on in the world are foretold ... i know its frustrating at times but Jesus warns us of troubles because of our faith. Yet another reason i believe all of His word to be truth and certainly he promises us deliverence or escape from His wrath on a fractured world of unbelievers. He wont allow His bride to go through that. I know it in my heart. Sue knows a lot of scripture references by heart that say so!!!
Yes Lord Come quickly!!!!

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Anonymous

Do you trust God? Do you know that He does not lie to us, or deceive us? We may not understand, but we can be sure it is true simply because God’s inerrant, inspired Word tells us so. God says what He means and means what He says.

Although I knew from childhood that Jesus would return in the 2nd Coming to the earth ‘one day’; I was just thirty years old when I found out about the ‘Rapture’. My mouth dropped open and I said ‘The WHAT!” To be honest I thought it was something a bit rude and was totally amazed. It wasn’t that I WANTED to believe the Rapture was true, I KNEW with every fibre of my being it WAS true. Since then The Lord has blessed me with a passion for the truth of the IMMINENT return of Jesus in the AIR which is called ‘the Blessed Hope’.

Lets go slowly, look at these Scriptures first, consider them prayerfully and ask the Lord to help you know the Truth. Say ‘if this is a lie Lord, protect me from the lie, but if it is true help my unbelief.”

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS

Rapere in the Latin Vulgate Bible. Translated as Rapture in English.
‘Caught up’
‘snatch’
And probably many other variations in other languages.

The Rapture/Harpazo/snatch/caught up event, is in preparation for wrath to be poured out in judgment upon the 'earthdwellers', the Gentile nations, AND to bring Israel back to God. The Church is Christ’s Bride, and we are IN Him seated in heavenly places as our citizenship is in heaven, not on earth. As our Bridegroom Jesus is coming to take us to be married in heaven in the Fathers House. He wants us out of the way because the Church is not destined for WRATH!

1Thess.5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Lets leave it there for now, read it, soak it up and pray in faith to receive the Truth.

God bless you to receive the truth of the imminent Rapture. Get this into your understanding,then we can more on.

Maranatha! (My bedtime :)

Rodney said...

Maranatha is only found in 1 Corinthians 16:22, the context is in seeking divine justice calling for the Lord to come and establish the Kingdom! This was commonly used among Christians who were facing persecution and martyrdom by the hands of both unbelieving Jew's and Romans! It is not supported as a call for the Rapture to take place, simply because a curse is also applied to the content. Therefore Maranatha, when applied in proper context can not be used to support or as claimed "Doctrine of Imminence".

Expected Imminently said...

Maranatha used in context within Scripture.

1 Corinthians 16:22

Now concerning the collection for the saints: As I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2Upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay aside in store as God hath prospered him, so that there need be no gatherings when I come.
3And when I come, whomever ye shall approve by your letters I will send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
4And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
5Now I will come unto you when I shall pass through Macedonia (for I am passing through Macedonia).
6And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you,that ye may send me on my journey whithersoever I go.
7For I will not see you now on my way, but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.
8But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
9For a great door, and effectual, has opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.
10Now if Timothy come, see that he may be with you without fear, for he worketh the work of the Lord, as I also do.
11Let no man therefore despise him, but conduct him forth in peace, that he may come unto me; for I look for him with the brethren.
12Now concerning our brother Apollos: I greatly desired that he should come unto you with the brethren, but it was not at all his will to come at this time; but he will come when it shall be convenient.
13Watch ye; stand fast in the faith; acquit yourselves like men; be strong.
14Let all your things be done with charity.
15I beseech you, brethren (ye know the household of Stephanas and that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints),
16that ye submit yourselves unto such and to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth.
17I am glad about the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus, for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied.
18For they have refreshed my spirit and yours; therefore acknowledge ye those who are such.
19The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
20All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with a holy kiss.
21The salutation of me, Paul, with mine own hand.
22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Maranatha!

23The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
24My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen.

Expected Imminently said...

MARANATHA - O Lord, come! Paul is looking for the return of Jesus. Marana tha is Aramaic for O Lord, come! This was one of the earliest words of the Christian vocabulary.

μαράνα θά - an interjection!

Marana-tha

Maranatha used in context of Church History.

An expression used in 1Cr 16:22, is the Greek spelling for two Aramaic words, formerly supposed by some to be an imprecatory utterance or "a curse reinforced by a prayer,"

an idea CONTRARY to the intimations coveyed by its use in early Christian documents, e.g., "The Teaching of the Apostles," a document of the beginning of the 2nd cent., and in the "Apostolic Constitutions" (vii. 26), where it is used as follows: "GATHER US ALL TOGETHER INTO THY KINGDOM WHICH THOU HAST PREPARED. MARANA-THA, HOSANNA TO THE SON OF DAVID; BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH, etc

The first part, ending in 'n,' signifies "Lord;" as to the second part, the Fathers regarded it as a past tense, "has come." Modern expositors take it as equivalent to a present, "cometh," or future, "will come." Certain Aramaic scholars regard the last part as consisting of 'tha,' and regard the phrase as an ejaculation, "Our Lord, come," or "O Lord, come."

The character of the context, however, indicates that the Apostle is making a statement rather than expressing a desire or uttering a prayer.
As to the reason why it was used, most probably it was a current ejaculation among EARLY CHRISTIANS, as embodying the consummation of their desires.

Vines.

"At first the title Marana or Maran, used in speaking to and of Christ was no more than the respectful designation of the Teacher on the part of the disciples." After His resurrection they used the title of or to Him as applied to God, "but it must here be remembered that the Aramaic-speaking Jews did not, save exceptionally, designate God as 'Lord'; so that in the 'Hebraist' section of the Jewish Christians the expression 'our Lord' (Marana) was used in reference to Christ only"

(Dalman, The Words of Jesus).


MARANATHA! Our Lord is coming back soon!

(Sue)

Nathan Jones said...

So good to hear you've given up smoking, Susie! After a lifetime of smoking my best friend's father died just filled with cancer. My buddy stopped himself by substituting Altoids. I'll be praying.

Glad you've gotten better, Sue!

Dr. Reagan continues on the mend and should be home from the hospital by the end of the week. Thank you all for your prayers!

Expected Imminently said...

Dr. Reagan is on the mend! Praise The Lord!

Maranatha!

Anonymous said...

Sue, Thank you for all the scripture and explainations on the rapture. I had never heard of it until older and have never, never, never been in a church where it is even mentioned. I have been to many different ones and demoninations and have given up on finding one. This site is one of which I seek out the truth. Thankyou so much for your love and time in lifting me up in Christ and Truth. I will always be blessed by this love.( Anon from wishing rapture is true.)

Expected Imminently said...

Anon Rapture Wish

You are very welcome. :D

Dr.Reagan has lots of info on the Rapture that Nathan can guide you to. Look on the side-bar for the heading ‘Rapture’. Yummy!

Please be encouraged that the Holy Spirit is a great teacher and will gradually lead you into ALL truth; as much as you can handle and more if the desire is real. I haven't had any pretrib / imminency Rapture teaching from a 'church'. Mostly it has been down to the leading of the Lord all on my own. I am also 'older' and a grandmother. Age or learning ability is not a barrier.

When I was blessed with a PC; that opened up the wider church to me, but I was already aware of Dr Reagan and Arnold Fruchtenbaum. My 'learning' has been confirmed and added to by such teachers. I haven't been associated with a 'church' for decades. Not for want of trying; I was just very keen not to be compromised by false teaching so obeyed and 'came apart' from apostate teaching.

If you are in a ‘wilderness’ like I am, the Lord will feed you just as the Ravens fed Elijah. All you have to do is ask and trust and He WILL answer.

Do you know John 14:1- 3 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansion if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

This is a Rapture passage that is often ignored, or is used at funerals.

Also Rev 4-5 the ‘elders’ are symbolic of the church IN heaven BEFORE the 70th Week. When I realised this truth, my whole person ‘lit up’ with joy and expectancy. At first I was affected by the scoffers, but no longer. Praise The Lord!

MARANATHA!

God bless you in your search.
Sue
x

Anonymous said...

Sue,
Thank you again. So much you fed me in God's Word has spoken to my hungry, thirsty soul.

God Bless,
Anon Rapture Wish

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Anon Rapture Wish

I am so pleased you have had a good drenching :)

Keep looking up with that Blessed Hope. Keep reading the Rapture Scriptures prayerfully and with trust in Jesus to tell you the Truth. Have you read the 'twinkling' verse yet???

1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

AMAZING!

Please keep in touch with us, we want you to be worthy of the crown reward to glorify Jesus with. Tell us when you have the assurance of that hope.

To make it easier, may I suggest we call you Rapture Hope - or RH for short?

Keep lapping it up. :)
God bless you with the imminent Blessed Hope!
Sue
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