Monday, January 9, 2012

God Made the Box

Nathan JonesPDFBy

"The guest you've had on your TV show the past couple weeks is not one I can believe. He has God placed so in a box that in his finite mind he can't perceive a universe older than 6,000 years. The reason I have a problem with that is from the words of the Bible itself. Yes, I know the Genesis account very well. I've got three questions. Care to comment?" – James in Florida

James' email, along with a slew of other emails, came streaming into the ministry last September after we aired our "Christ in Prophecy" television show's four-part series titled Jobe Martin on Creationism and Evolution. Dr. Martin was a former dental professor and Evolutionist who having clearly seen God's eternal power and divine nature from what has been made came to faith in Jesus Christ and put his trust in the Bible's account of the six days of Creation. Through Biblical Discipleship Ministries, and their Nature Proclaims videos, he and his family teach all over the country that we can implicitly trust the Bible's account of the Creation.

Like Dr. Martin, I'm a believer in a young earth and so would in some circles be called a "Young-Earther." Our worldview here at Lamb & Lion Ministries is based on the idea that the earth and everything in the universe began a mere 6,000 years ago. It is not a wildly popular view — even among Christians — nevertheless I believe it is a biblically supported one.

I would respectfully disagree that taking the 6-day/24-hour Genesis account to be narrow minded, or that a young earth places God in a box whatsoever. So, for those who doubt that the earth could be young, I'd be happy to comment on James' three questions.


Three Questions

1) "When did Lucifer get thrown out of heaven? You know he had to be there before Eve chose to pick from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil."

This question is prompted by the Gap Theory. According to that theory, after God created the heavens and the earth, Satan rebelled and was cast down to earth. He made havoc of the creation, causing it to descend into chaos. Then, millions of years later, God re-created the universe, and that re-creation is what is recorded in Genesis chapter 1.

What this question is really getting at is, "When were the angels created?" The Bible does not tell us directly, but we are told in Job 38:4-7 that they rejoiced when God created the material universe. So, they must have pre-dated the creation.

But that does not mean that Satan and a third of the angels were cast from Heaven before the creation. There is no indication that Adam sinned the very next day after Eve was made, so there was plenty of time after the creation — maybe even decades — for Satan to lead a rebellion in Heaven and be cast down to the Garden.

2) "The dinosaurs are older than 6,000 years."

Who knows for sure that the dinosaurs are older than 6,000 years? Science requires observation in the scientific method to draw that conclusion, and nobody today is 6,000 years old.

The dinosaur stumbling block many face is because our modern mindset has been classifying dinosaurs as a separate group of extinct lizards since the 1800's. In times before the Theory of Evolution, they were just included as part of the whole animal kingdom. That's the way the Bible sees dinosaurs, and so it includes them in its description with the rest of the animals, like the Behemoth and Leviathan in Job.

Certainly, many of our dragon legends that exist in all cultures, developing in isolation from one another, show dinosaurs may have still been roaming the Earth even up until the 1500's. A few like the aquatic plesiosaur have been found even in the Twentieth Century!

3) "Why did God tell Adam and Eve to 'replenish' the earth? Does that mean it had been peopled beforehand?"

God in Genesis 1:28 commands mankind to be fruitful, and in the old King James version to "replenish" the earth. In other versions, Adam and Eve are told "to fill" the earth, because the Hebrew word alm does not mean to replenish. Rather, that word according to Strong's simply means "to fill." In fact, this very same word is used in Genesis 1:22 where the command is given by God to "fill the waters of the seas." Later versions of the Bible have rendered the verb properly as "to fill." Sadly, this mistranslation of alm to "replenish" is the very source of all these pre-Adamic theories today, like the Gap Theory that proposes a gap of millions or billions of years between Genesis 1 and 2.


Have Faith

So, where do we get the 6,000 as the number of years since the Creation? Dr. Martin explains that we get that amount by calculating from the Bible's genealogical tables.

The Bible is God's Word teaching us what He wishes to reveal to us. It's also the foundation for our faith in and understanding of our Savior. Anything outside of the Bible is wild speculation based on man's own imagination and limited view of the universe. While there is much that God has yet to reveal to us, we should not speculate beyond exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible gives us 6,000 years and so 6,000 years is what I will believe.

21 comments:

Billy said...

Off Topic Alert (sorry - but I'm a guy and it is the football season and it is related to Christianity).

Nathan,

What do you think about the Tebow situation in the NFL? The context of my question:

One guy at my work is FURIOUS with the Tebow story and hates everything related to his success. His non-Christian opinion is that Tebow is shoving his religion in his face and he doesn't like it. He is very hostile to Tebow and Christianity right now.

I haven't followed the Tebow story that much (since I'm a Raiders fan and hate the Broncos). So my generic take without knowing the whole story is if he want to praise God for being in the NFL and his success, that's fine. BUT I, frankly, would be disgusted at any player that would pray to God for a victory. Praying to stay healthy, do your best, keep things in perspective...all that is fine. But to pray to win??? That rubs me the wrong way...especially when you think of other things you could pray for...like the thousands of poor little children dying of cancer in the hospitals.

I know my friend is off base. But...am I off base??? (Specifically my "don't pray to win" feelings)

Billy said...

Okay, I'll leave an ON topic post, too.

I think that you made a good point, Nathan, that the Bible can read in a condensed format with the passage of time. Timelines from verse to verse can reflect a passage of time (as in your example of "There is no indication that Adam sinned the very next day after Eve was made, so there was plenty of time after the creation — maybe even decades — for Satan to lead a rebellion in Heaven and be cast down to the Garden.")

Nathan Jones said...

Billy, I reminded of how history records that during the Civil War both sides prayed fervently that they would win. Today that kind of prayer seems to have rolled over into sports.

Jesus made it a point to pray big, but since nobody has moved a physical mountain by prayer (Mat. 17:20), clearly we are to pray instead for the Lord's will to be done (Mat. 6:10)... to move the "mountains" God wills.

Evil people like vampires shrink back when subjected to the light, hence the angst over Tebow.

Susie said...

Hi billy .... i talked asked my teenage son what he thought of the tebow situation and he says tebow isnt praying for a win but rather making a statement of his faith. I never watch the news but maybe my son is incorrect?

Sue...... u and ur family r in my prayers everyday:)

Nathan.. interesting article....i am looking forward to what will follow this week..... and how is dr. Reagans recovery ?

DrNofog said...

Dear EI,
Msg Rcvd -- Stand strong and continue to give your voice *everywhere*, as your posts are a true witness to His Word, His grace, and "Things to Come"! [JDP]

Nathan Jones said...

Thanks for checking, Susie! Dr. Reagan had some cauterization done and continues a very rigorous physical therapy schedule. He's back in action somewhat, though, writing new episodes of "Christ in Prophecy" from home. Hopefully he'll be walking well enough by February to come into the studio for video shooting.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Susie
Your prayers are very much appreciated on many levels! My family members are coping admirably with a difficult situation; nothing settled to date due to ‘officialdom’. God bless you with all His answers to your questions. :)


DrNofog
I am both moved and encouraged by your post. ‘Thing’s are obviously right on target regarding ‘perilous times’. Sobering, frightening, disturbing but to be expected!

As soon as possible, I shall buy ‘Things To Come’ by Dwight Pentecost; it sounds like a book ‘for a time such as this’. My love and blessings to your wife for a speedy recovery. Strength and peace to you!
Sue
X

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Nathan

I am 100% behind these articles knowing L&L are firmly entrenched in His Word attempting to stop those whose teaching is contrary to The Truth, and trying to prevent them from wasting their time in endless discussions of myths, and a false record of descent. These things only lead to meaningless speculations, which don't help people live a life of faith in God. This you do with the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and genuine faith, as Scripture instructs.

Some miss this whole point, as they have turned away from sound doctrine and spend their time in meaningless discussions. They want to be known as teachers of the commandments of God, which is excellent when used properly, but these don't know what they are talking about, even though they speak so confidently. Until Jesus come, we will not all agree on every point, but it is a difference borne from a desire to walk in the Holy Spirit and be true to the revelation of His Word rather than by unstable feelings and human emotions.

Keep on defending the faith of God as it is really disturbing to discover that there are those who scatter Scripture like feathers from a plucked chicken as thoughts blown by the wind and tossed by the waves completely devoid of the Holy Spirits unction, yet thinking themselves as instructors of righteousness! I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into the church, saying that God's marvellous grace allows us to live immoral lives thus, they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

I realise you already know these things and think back to the strong articles you did on homosexuality and the worrying opinions ranged in opposition to God’s clearly stated word on all these matters. Too many today are claiming authority from their dreams and visions which is amoral defiance against God’s written authority. In addition are those that scoff at supernatural beings, ignoring the sombre fact that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers that are hidden and unseen to the human eye, and there lies their greater power, for ‘out of sight, out of mind’ to those who mock at the dark deeds behind all falsehood. C.S. Lewis’s ‘Screwtape Letters’ is analogous reading and a pertinent reminder to Eph 6.12.

Dearest Nathan, you are my God given example to imitate as a man blessed with genuine Grace. For this reason you are not suited to using the phrase “I would respectfully disagree” – as your speech is always seasoned with respect. Although I completely understand why you chose this expression, it made my toes curl coming from you. From observation, it is a term (along with an ingenuous ‘forgive me – but’) that is favoured by self opinionated bullies, who are strong willed, yet weak in the faith (but think otherwise) to use as a battering ram to enforce their personal view over a Scriptural fact that they deem to know better. It’s a power kick of those who like to ‘control’ by abusing a ‘soft word that turns aside wrath’ thereby creating a forced entry with little, or no complaint by their victims who feel unable to deny such ‘respect’. Thereby allowing Biblical truth and the fact of what God actually said; usurped with the sickly social Gospel oozing insincere ‘love’ from deceptive, honeyed lips; while calling light, dark and good, evil. So God’s Truth is awkwardly kicked out of sight and covered over to prevent ‘offence’.

To date, you and L&L are not guilty of such hypocrisy and boldly put the Light on a candlestick for all too clearly see by. Should you ever stop doing that, then I shall depart in haste after having a great deal to say on the matter. Please keep doing what you are doing; as there are now precious few that haven’t been bamboozled into subjection.

I have based this comment on 1Timothy1 and Jude.
I thank God for you and L&L. May He bless and strengthen you in these perilous times. 2Timothy 3.
Sue
x

Billy said...

I mentioned my friend who was upset over Tebow. I have talked to him about the end times events that will occur so he has some knowledge of the events in case he is around and it may help him believe.

I was just talking to him and telling him of the 7 year peace treaty. He said "why 7 years? what makes you think it will be 7 years". I said because the Bible says so. Then I told him about the imagery of the harlot on the beast and then showed him photos on the internet of the harlot on the beast statue at the EU building and the German magazine cover with the same image.

HE WAS SHOCKED! HE WAS SPEECHLESS! There was Bible prophecy staring him in the face.

A seed was planted today. I pray it grows.

Talk to unbelievers about the end times. I've found that those that resist Christianity discussion are much more open if the Christian topic is related to end times events. It's a great way to open their minds to Jesus because, though not religious they still have an interest in end times events.

Billy said...

Susie,

Thanks for the reply. I have a feeling your son is likely correct in which case I have no problem with Tebow.

Susie said...

O my gosh billy!! I was just watching the news and sounds like tebows stats are 316 in like three different ways. It was on Christian news and i didnt catch it all!! But is that awesome or what!!!!! I texted my son to make sure he could quote that scripture to his friends!!! Hahaha

Susie said...

Oops. I forgot to say that i will pray that the seed u planted with ur friend will draw him in and cause him to search for and find our precious Lord thus sharing in our joy knowing His return is imminent:):)

Nathan Jones said...

You're too kind, Sue! Don't put us on a pedestal, but keep us accountable as you promised. We've got a great crew here on the blog for doing that. It's an honor to share Heaven with you all someday.

Anonymous said...

Billy, my personal take on Tebow is that of a non-sports fan, but I think it applies to all endeavors. Praying for victory is one thing; giving glory to God for a victory is another. From what i understand, Tebow is a charitable person. If God is using him to glorify His name and spread the good news--as well as blessings--then I think his very public Christian identity is a good thing. I used to think it was strange when athletes--especially boxers--would pray before a match. Like, "God, please help me beat this person to a bloody pulp for money, fame and a belt." But if football is just a means for Tebow to redistribute blessings and the good news, then perhaps his famous pose isn't off base.

Let's just hope he doesn't get busted shooting up a club or become wrapped up in some sex scandal. Christians in such positions are tempted more than the average Joe.

Anonymous said...

Great article, Nathan. I was just reading the second half of Job today, and the sections regarding a fire-breathing beast got me thinking about the segment of Christ in Prophecy where you discussed the Bombardier Beetle. God has created things so magnificent that, in their absense, the secular world can only concieve of them as fairy tales. Why not, when the creation story itself is referred to as such, despite the remaining, overwhelming evidence?

I hope to see you and Dr. Reagan back in the studio very soon. I really look forward to the show!

Billy said...

Anon said "Let's just hope he doesn't get busted shooting up a club or become wrapped up in some sex scandal. Christians in such positions are tempted more than the average Joe."

I had similar thoughts. Christians aren't perfect. We can stumble and give in to temptation and act out like the sinners we still are (forgiven, but still sinners) in times of weakness. And the Christian haters would be in a state of exctasy (spelling?) if Tebow were caught in a compromising situation.

The haters just don't get it. I'm not a Christian because I'm perfect. I'm Christian because I'm not and need Jesus for salvation.

DrNofog said...

Billy & all,
Here's some more prophecy ammo:
http://www.thedanielprojectmovie.com/trailer.htm

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Billy
“…I had similar thoughts. Christians aren't perfect. We can stumble and give in to temptation and act out like the sinners we still are (forgiven, but still sinners) in times of weakness…”

That’s absolutely right!

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24. being JUSTIFIED FREELY by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,…

1John1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

It is the hyper-Calvinists who point fingers at the actions/works of a man to determine if they are Christians or not. Or say that bad behaviour is evidence that they were not genuinely saved in the first place. (L.S.) They reduce the FREE GRACE Gospel into a WORK = ANOTHER GOSPEL. We are declared to be justified, it is a legal term; that doesn’t mean we are without sin/fault. Jesus paid the price of ALL sin past, present and future for the whole world. When we do sin, we have an advocate.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Free Grace is not a license to sin we need to keep in fellowship with our Heavenly Father or otherwise we can pray up a ‘storm’; but if there is rebellion and un-repented sin, then He will not hear our prayers. So this is about sanctification, not justification. Praise The Lord!

1John1:9. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Nathan

I can promise you that my days of 'pedestals' ended long ago learned through bitter experience. Believe it or not, I have been hoisted onto a few myself, so I tend to give it a good rocking to show I am not worthy of it. It is only The Word of God that is deserving of elevation. It is almost funny to see how quickly ‘love’ is manifestly abandoned as each pedestal crashes earthward; clearly the unconditional ‘agape’ Love of God NOT being in operation, rather the emotional soulish, fleshly variety. Yuk!

It is much easier to 'nit pick' every little fault, but as Paul is quick to encourage where it is deserved, then why not follow suit. Not because I agree on every point, but because of your stand against the coming of the False Prophet. It seems to me that most have their attention fixed on the a/c, as his coming is more obvious and news worthy, not so the more insidious harlot of the F.P. the apostate church, which is a seriously real, and present threat that inveigles itself like an invisible virus.

How much easier if it was an obvious, single entity to be noticed by even the most inattentive eye. That is why we have to watch so carefully, and our ONLY defence is to keep tight to all of God’s Word of instruction. 'See that no man deceive you' was the first item on Jesus’ list of warnings, yet it is the most ignored!

Every blessing.
Sue
x

Anonymous said...

I live in Colorado and have been drawn back to football because of Tim Tebow. He is a great guy. Don’t worry, he doesn’t ask to win games. He believes that any success he has comes from God, therefore he praises and thanks Him for everything good and bad. He is an example to kids and adults everywhere. Believe me, I live here, people are taking notice of this cool guy who loves God. Tim is the real deal.

He could really use our prayers. Really, I don’t care if Denver wins or looses, but I care deeply for Tim. I know Satan has his eye on him and would love nothing more than to bring him down. Please pray that God will give Tim strength and protection. He is a young guy with temptations everywhere.

Suzanne
Colorado Springs, Colorado

Susie said...

Suzanne.... im in agreement with u in prayer for tebow.... :)