Friday, January 20, 2012

Six Reasons For Wanting Jesus To Return: 3

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

Did Jesus also die for the redemption of the Creation?

New Year's greetings to all of you! To ring in this new year, Dr. David Reagan, Dennis Pollock of Spirit of Grace Ministries and I discussed on television's Christ in Prophecy six reasons why all who profess to be Christians should earnestly desire that this year would prove to be the year when the Church will be raptured out of this world.

Christ in Prophecy Panel

Reason #3: The Creation is Restored

Dr. Reagan: A third reason I want to see the Lord come back is because He is going to fulfill promises He has made to the Creation. What would those be, Nathan?

Nathan Jones: The Bible, especially in Romans 8, talks about the Creation being under bondage. It is under the curse of God. It is suffering just as much as we humans are.

If the Creation had consciousness, which it doesn't, it too would yearn too for the time when it would be redeemed. That time can only happen when the Sons of God are revealed (Rom. 8:19). Believers in Christ are considered the sons of God. We are the ones who will get our glorified bodies one day. The Earth during the Millennial Kingdom of Christ will get you could say its glorified body in a way as the curse will be lifted. That's when we get to those verses where it says the lion will eat straw and the wolf will lie down with the lamb. What a wonderful picturesque time period this will be when the Earth will be restored! Then, afterwards during the Eternal State, the Earth will be totally restored in what's called the New Earth.

Dennis Pollock: I don't know whether Global Warming is a reality or not, but one thing I do know is that the world has a bigger problem than Global Warming, and that is the problem of sin and decay that is all over our world.

Nathan Jones: The Law of Entropy.

Dennis Pollock: No matter what you are looking at, it will decay and it will grow old. It will eventually dissolve and be annihilated. Nature is in bondage to the process of decay. Only when Christ returns will that process be reversed.

It's amazing that in the original first few generations of man you read in the Bible that these guys lived to be around 900 years old. Then, suddenly after the Flood and man doing some more damage to the Earth and to himself, you can look at the life spans and they drop quickly down to 500, then down to 400. Within a few generations when we are down to where Abraham starts, then it became a big deal for him to father a baby at 100 years of age. But, back in Noah's day and before that it was no big deal at all to have a baby at 100 years of age. Those guys did it all the time.

Yes, the very Earth itself and the process of our own growth has all been corroded and corrupted by sin and the process of decay.

Dr. Reagan: The whole of Creation is in bondage to decay. That is part of the curse that came as the result of sin entering this world.

I find that most people are not aware of the fact that when Jesus died on the cross, He died not only to redeem mankind, but He also died to redeem all of Creation. This was indicated in Old Testament times when the High Priest would go into the Holy of Holies once a year and he would sprinkle the blood on the Mercy Seat. This was a symbol that one day the Messiah would die and through His blood we would be able to cover the Law of God and the demands of the Law of God. By grace we could finally be reconciled to God.

What most people ignore is that it says the High Priest always stepped back and he sprinkled the blood on the ground in front of the Mercy Seat. That was a symbol that the blood of the Messiah would also make it possible for all of Creation to be redeemed. God loves His creation.

When I was growing up in the church I was taught that when the Lord came back there was going to be a big explosion and the whole Creation would cease to exist. We would go off into a never-never world and exist as spiritual beings floating around on a cloud playing a harp. We wouldn't be tangible nor have bodies or be on the Earth.

But, the Bible teaches just the opposite. Again, God loves His creation. He's going to redeem His Creation. In the original Creation there were no poisonous plants, no poisonous animals, and no meat eating animals which are all part of the curse. The Bible says the lion will eat straw with the ox. It says a little boy will play in the hole of the adder because the snake will no longer be poisonous. I believe those are real promises that God is going to redeem and refresh and return this Earth to what it was at the original time of the Creation.

Dennis Pollock: Yes! Christians aren't anti-environment. Some people have accused us all of being the people who throw our garbage out of the car and just don't care about our environment. We do care and we should care, but we are realistic enough to know that this world and the environment will never be what it should be until Christ returns.


Dr. Reagan: Okay, let's take a moment for review. We are discussing six reasons why Christians should desire the soon return of Jesus and thus far we have mentioned three.

Nathan Jones: The first is that Jesus might receive what He has been promised; namely honor, and glory, and power over all the kingdoms of the earth.

Dennis Pollock: The second is that Satan might receive what He deserves; namely total defeat, dishonor, and humiliation.

Nathan Jones: And the third is that the Creation might receive what it has been promised; namely regeneration, restoration and refreshment.

In the next part of our discussion on six reasons why believers in Christ should be anxious for Jesus' return, we'll continue on to reasons four and five.


Susie said...

How exciting it is to think of our very near future!!!


What does it mean that Jesus is the first fruit of resurrection... when he really wasnt the first one to be brought back to life?

James Anderson said...

Yes, I agree that Christ died for the redemption of all creation. I also believe that this is why he wore a crown of thorns. At the start of the fall this is what Scripture says:Genesis 3:18
“Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Also, during the thousand year reign of Christ the length of a persons life will be extended. Isaiah 65:20
“No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.
James Anderson

DrNofog said...

Susie said "...Jesus...wasnt the first one to be brought back to life?"

Not just brought back to life in a mortal body like the others, but the 1st to be resurrected in a restored, glorified, immortal body, "redeemed" [purchased back from the curse], that Adam and Eve originally had!

Expected Imminently said...

There are some strange sound recordings from around the world. Some are obviously a 'fix'; others are not so easily explained away,such as the sounds caught during a live game by the TV peeps.
Some have likened it to the earth groaning.
The UK one's have been checked out by experts who didn't know what the sounds are!
Sort of ufo's of sound!
Whatever, something sounds as if it could do with a drop of oil on the hinges - just like my old bod that needs replacing sooner rather than later. :)


Susie said...

Thx dr nofog :)

DrNofog said...

Strange Sounds

Dutchsinse also mentioned this a couple of days ago:
"1/16/2012 -- 'Strange sounds' heard WORLDWIDE -- Stay Alert and BE PREPARED!
Uploaded by dutchsinse on Jan 16, 2012..."

My 1st gut-reaction upon hearing reports of these 'sounds and noises' happening world-wide, is that these are the 1st 'audio practice runs' [unintelligible for now] to condition the earth-dwellers [as in "yeah, yeah, we've been hearing strange things for years now] and are eventually designed to try to 'discount' the voices of the 3 Gospel Angels in Revelation 14:6-11:

"6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.."

I say **"unintelligible for now"** because the technology is already old for 'recorded voice, synthetic voices, & voice-overs' that have been used for several decades now, in both phones & computers, and THAT IS NOT the real technological issue AT ALL!

The REAL ISSUE is -can you properly modulate & control the projection of the Human voice ranges into the upper atmosphere in such a way, so that it 'seemingly' equals the "voices of the 3 Gospel Angels" so as to counter & deny what they proclaim!

The AC could use the technology [a variation of Project Bluebeam, perhaps] to broadcast his lies and maybe even blame the voices on those d^mn 'believers' trying to fake a miracle to scare his followers...

I posted the above on other Christian sites, but it was quickly intimated that I just needed to readjust my tin-foil hat...

Expected Imminently said...

Hello DrNofog
Preps for the coming a/c and f/p are certainly underway. There have been attempts at holograms of 'Mary'that may also explain a weird 'ufo' over the dome of the rock. So why not attempts at projecting sound as well - its more feasable than the earth groaning methinks. If we truly believe we are in the wind down of this present age, then all weird phenom. is up for consideration imo. My old boss used to say "never throw the baby out with the bathwater".
Stranger than fiction seems to be the order of these predicted perilous times.

Expected Imminently said...

Hello Nathan

Some pretribs, while claiming to be Dispy’s, are clearly influenced by the Covenant Theology interpretation whereby they fail to recognise a distinction between Israel and the Church. Seemingly some do not realise that the promises to National Israel/Jehovah’s wife (presently put aside) are physical while the Jew/Gentile Church/Body/bride of Christ is a spiritual man.

They seem to place O.T. saints as part of the Church as some believe men like Abraham are raptured along with Christ’s Body at the end of the Church age. However the Jews who are part of Christ’s Body with believing Gentiles have been baptised INTO the Body by the Holy Spirit for a ‘new man’ whereas O.T.saints, although saved by faith in Christ’s atonement, are not. These Patriarchs are set to be resurrected after the Tribulation in order to keep God’s promise for their rule of physical greater Israel.

Some imply that this distinction relates to the false ‘Two House’ theology of The EPHRAIMITE or British Israel heresy, which is clearly nonsense. Some time ago I read a warning given to the Church by the late Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer who said that R.C. Covenant Theology interpretation was already infiltrating the domain of Dispy’s Literal Hermeneutic, and was set to cause future confusion and division.

I am seeing this philosophy in action just as he warned, but as I am no expert (just one who has been alerted to the perils of C.T.) and I wondered if Dr.Reagan has previously dealt with this problem in Lamplighter?

I found part of a rebuttal by Norman Manzen of The Shofar that is helpful, but I couldn’t find part 1? Interestingly there is an article by the late, great Dr. David L. Cooper on the Rules of Interpretation.

Anonymous said...


Is this what you were looking for?

rg AKA amc

DrNofog said...

Since I had been offline for a little while, in trying to play catch-up, I had puzzled over yer comment "Hmmm...dunno how the vaurim got up there. until I noticed that
vaurim said... and rg said... were both signed by rg....

How many "Vaurim" did you take that day??

Expected Imminently said...

Hello rg
MANY thanks for the link – I couldn’t find it for looking!

Please may I ask all the brothers a question to see if I understand correctly?
Regarding divorce.

Obviously God hates it, and yet God has stated plainly that he has divorced Israel. Jer.3:8. According to His commands, once divorced, a man cannot remarry his divorced wife because she is defiled. Deut.24:4. Technically that means God cannot go against Himself and remarry Israel!
However, He is calling Israel to Repentance, so that she can be healed. There is only one way for National Israel to be healed from her ‘whoredom’, and that is to finally place her faith in her promised Messiah Yeshua. His blood cleanses from ALL unrighteousness. Thus she will be cleansed from her defilement and able to resume her marriage to Jehovah in the eternal New Covenant?

Can’t look up any more verses at present – I am sure you know the ones I mean!
Thanks in advance. :)

Anonymous said...

Sue, haven't had a chance to check but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing the topic discussed in Dr Frucht's Footsteps.

Vaurim were the word ID letters which I put in the wrong place.


Expected Imminently said...

Yes, thank you. It is in Footstep's, but I wanted to make sure that I understand it properly for myself, because certain Dispy peeps are questioning AF; and I think its because of the Covenant Theology interp infiltration that is tripping up some well meaning Dispys! It appears they aren't clear on the Dispensational issue, its not heresy, just muddled I think. But I might have the wrong end of the stick.

amc? is that you rg, are you having an upgrade? :)
I am glad DrNofog asked rg about 'Vaurim'; I tried Googling it to no avail. hee!

Anonymous said...

Sue, amc are my real initials. My true upgrade is when the rapture happens :-)

Coincidentally, I've been reading up on PD a lot of late. As you know, a lot of posties are jumping on that bandwagon. I don't know a lot about Saucy but what he says in Feinberg's "continuity & Discontinuity" insofar as distinctions between the church and Israel pretty much lines up with pure disp teaching. I did find out that Saucy has his differences with Bock and Blaising - just to add to the confusion. One of the biggest differences between PD & CD is in hermeneutics and the role of the interpreter. This is discussed by Robert L Thomas. If I understand Thomas correctly, this means that under PD, the interpreter has a greater flexibility in understanding a particular text. In other words, flexible hermeneutics. No wonder some jump on PD!

I'm wondering whether Charles Feinberg addresses the divorce-remarriage in his book on the "Minor Prophets" Hosea chapter. I'll have to look it up.


Expected Imminently said...

amc said "...My true upgrade is when the rapture happens :-)"

I like it! :D

I haven’t thought about PD in ages. The Postie I knew claimed it meant the Bible was open to interpretation (word?) and I certainly jumped all over him myself.

I have heard PD described as an ‘Already – Not Yet’ view of the Kingdom; do you think that is what is confusing these Dispy’s? Not that they are fully PD but affected by it?

PD has also been described as not progressive at all, but a 'reformation'; and they are not even Dispy, but more ‘Covenantal’.
I have been trying to remember my source, but my brains on strike.

Thank you for looking. Perhaps Nathan will be able to find something on Monday?

God bless

Vaurim_Returns2Haunt said...


If you go "here" for a helpful hint on "how to", this will save you a little time for any of your future posts too, as you won't have to sign 'amc' at the bottom either...

minoria said...

Guys,I think there is something to the Shroud of Turin.Did you know the very scientists who said it was from the Middle Ages now say the dating was wrong?

Because 15th century cloth was added to the shroud,and it was that area that was analyzed by 3 labs,so the results for its age are false.

If it is really 2,OOO years old then because it shows the man had a crown of thorns,then it would almost certainly be that of Jesus.See the Discovery Channel documentary will all,and more information in the article,it is fascinating:

Anonymous said...

Hey, Vaurim_Returns2Haunt (alias Doc?)

Yeah, I know how to do the blue thingy and html and even a bit of programming.

But I like being a rebel.

amc (formerly known as vaurim formerly known as rg)

Expected Imminently said...

I have been reluctant to respond to your comment as it tends to rouse such passions, my own included, however, imo The Shroud, along with all religious artefacts, is yet another lying sign and wonder.

God never tempts us, but He DOES put us to the test. Do we, who are among the end time Laodicea Church, past the test to stand faithfully on His Word ALONE, or look excitedly for superstitious signs that take our eyes off Jesus who is The very Word of God.

Jesus said “…"It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God.' Matt.4:4.

2Cor5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.

Matthew12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
I.e Eyewitness accounts of the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness; He didn’t use superstitious, out of context, ‘binding or loosing’ or ‘rebuke’ Satan into hellfire. Jesus resisted as a man, in a way we can imitate. He used Scripture to DEFEND Himself against Satan’s temptation. We are to direct the Word as a powerful Light of Truth to diminish the darkness. If we don’t KNOW God’s Word, which is the Sword of the Spirit, then we are ill equipped to resist all tests.

The Church, or the world, doesn't need the Turin Shroud sign, or any other, it is a soulish/fleshly distraction from the Truth and how to resist in the spiritual battle we are always in, especially now.


Expected Imminently said...

I thought I had better add that I meant extra Biblical powers, signs and lying wonders as in 2Thess 2:9.
That includes the buried 'gold book' carelessly misplaced by 'Moroni'

Nathan Jones said...

@Minoria, the problem with the Shroud of Turin is that it is one long sheet wrapped around a body, which was not the burial custom in Jesus' time. People were wrapped in strips of cloth with a separate hood. For example, when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus called for him to be cut loose. Poor Lazarus could barely move when his arms were bound and his legs were bound. He had to be cut free in order to move among the living again.

Also, the Gospels tell us that the two women went in and they found the grave clothes and they were very frightened and they thought maybe someone has stolen Jesus' body. It would have been easy to remove a sheet, but quite another thing to come out of tied-up wrappings, which is what in part amazed the women.

Peter and John, too, saw the "strips of linen lying by themselves" (Lk 24:12). "So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen" (Jn. 20:3-7).

While the Shroud of Turin clearly shows someone crucified, because of the Gospel account and the Jewish custom of the time, it's highly unlikely that the Shroud was Jesus'.

Billy said...

The thing that made my think the shroud is not real is that the image on the cloth is typical of how Jesus has been portrayed in art throughout the years.

I don't think anyone (after a cetain amount of time after his death) really knows what he looked like.

Anonymous said...

Ephesians 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Anonymous said...

Acts 2:16-21...16 Instead, this is what the prophet Joel spoke about: 17 "This is what I will do in the last days, God says: I will pour out my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and daughters will proclaim my message; your young men will see visions, and your old men will have dreams. 18 Yes, even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will proclaim my message. 19 I will perform miracles in the sky above and wonders on the earth below. There will be blood, fire, and thick smoke; 20 the sun will be darkened, and the moon will turn red as blood, before the great and glorious Day of the Lord comes. 21 And then, whoever calls out to the Lord for help will be saved.'