Wednesday, October 31, 2012

A Blessed Publication

Dr. David R. ReaganPDFBy

My booklet, A Prophetic Manifesto, has been greatly blessed by the Lord. We have already printed 30,000 copies, and it looks like we will have to print more. Thanks to the generosity of our supporters, we have been able to mail out 15,000 copies to pastors all over the United States.

A Prophetic Manifesto

Some of the pastors who received copies have called and ordered 50 to 100 copies to distribute to every family in their congregation. The owner of a Christian television station in El Paso, Texas was so impressed with the booklet that she called and offered to fly Dr. Reagan to her city for a live TV interview. Jack Hayford, the renowned California pastor and former head of The Foursquare Churches, called one evening and left a very encouraging message, telling Dr. Reagan how impressed he was with the straightforward, simple and passionate message of the Manifesto.

The Manifesto is 40 pages long. It addresses two topics: the future of our nation and the return of Jesus. It calls pastors and laymen to get serious about both subjects — to realize that our nation has assured its doom by turning its back on God and to face up to the fact that we are living in the season of the Lord's return.

The Manifesto stresses the urgency of the times in which we are living. Our nation is on the brink of collapse, and Jesus is about to break from the heavens. The time is overdue for Christians to awake from their slumber and realize they are living on borrowed time. Likewise, pastors need to shift the focus from church growth schemes to preparing their people for hard times and the Lord's imminent return, calling their people to holiness and evangelism.

Many have asked why the booklet has such a stark cover. The reason is that it contains a stark message that is devoid of pleasantries. There is no "tip-toeing through the tulips" to avoid hurting feelings. The message is simple, blunt, and passionate.

There are many more churches we would like to send copies to. If you would like to help with that effort, designate your donation for "Mailing of the Manifesto."

Meanwhile, put the Manifesto on your prayer list and pray for its widespread distribution and for the impact of its message.

Thank you!

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Similar Voices

Dr. David R. ReaganPDFBy

In Old Testament times, when God got ready to destroy His beloved nation of Judah because of their refusal to repent of their sins, He raised up a chorus of prophetic voices to give the nation one last warning.

God is very patient. He will often tolerate sin a long time. But a day of reckoning will come if there is no repentance. The prophet Nahum put it this way: "The Lord is slow to anger and great in power, and the Lord will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Nahum1:3).

In my book, America the Beautiful? The United States in Bible Prophecy (1st edition in 2003, 2nd in 2006, and 3rd in 2009), I outline in detail the way in which God deals with nations. I point out that when a nation begins to rebel against God, He will raise up prophetic voices and send remedial judgments to call the nation to repentance. Because He is a compassionate God (Psalm 103:8), He never pours out His wrath without warning.

The first voice he raised up to warn our nation and call us to repentance was David Wilkerson (1931-2011). I have always referred to him as America's Jeremiah. Two books of his in particular were visionary warnings to this nation, with passionate calls for our repentance: The Vision (1974) and America's Last call: On the Brink of a Financial Holocaust (1998). Unfortunately, our nation and our churches turned a deaf ear to both books.

Since the turn of this century, just as in the days of Judah's spiritual and moral decline, the Lord has raised up a chorus of voices to get the attention of our nation, all of whom are warning that our days are numbered if we do not repent. Here is a partial list:

  • Terry James, The American Apocalypse (2009)
  • David Jeremiah, I Never Thought I'd See the Day! (2011)
  • Jonathan Cahn, The Harbinger (2011)
  • Robert Jeffress, Twilight's Last Gleaming (2012)
  • Joel C. Rosenberg, Implosion (2012)

On July 24th of this year, Billy Graham added his voice. In an open prayer letter addressed to the nation, Graham asserted, "My heart aches for America and its deceived people." He proceeded to proclaim that the only hope for America is for the nation to repent of its sins.

Meanwhile, the remedial judgments on our nation continue as we are in the midst of the greatest drought in modern history, with over 61% of our country in drought conditions. God's patience with us is drawing to a close. Will we wake up before it is too late?

Monday, October 29, 2012


Dr. David R. ReaganPDFBy

There is a sense of urgency in the air. Our nation is on the brink of moral and economic collapse. The world is caught up in an insane frenzy of terrorism. The Middle East is about to explode. And the biblical signs of the times are shouting from the heavens that Jesus is about to return.

In the words of Charles Dickens, "It is the best of times, it is the worst of times."

It is the worst of times because the depravity of Man is manifesting itself in the increasing rejection and blasphemy of God. The result is an exponential increase in violence and immorality.

It is the best of times because the collapse of society worldwide is the fulfillment of end time prophecies that point to the soon return of Jesus.

Jesus Himself said that He would return at a time when society was once again as immoral and violent as it was in the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37).

An Exciting But Challenging Time

We are privileged to be living in such an exciting and momentous time when we can witness the stage being set for the triumphant return of Jesus. But it is a time that calls for courage.

We simply must keep our eyes on Jesus, and we must remember that even if our nation has no hope, we as individual Christians have great hope.

But that sense of hope will prevail in our lives only if we consciously and determinedly live with an eternal perspective.

God is in Control

We must keep in mind that as the world falls apart around us, God's Word says that He "sits in the heavens and laughs" (Psalm 2:4). His laughter is not prompted by a lack of concern. Rather, He laughs because He has everything under control, for He has the wisdom and power to orchestrate all the evil of Man and Satan to the ultimate triumph of His Son.

He has also promised that He will walk with those who are Christians, accompanying us through fire and high water (Isaiah 43:1-3).

And He has promised us an escape before the world totally collapses into absolute chaos (Luke 21:36). That escape is called the Rapture. When Paul revealed this escape in detail in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, he concluded by saying, "Comfort one another with these words."

Additionally, we have the promise of the Millennial reign of Jesus to look forward to. What a day that will be!

Jesus will reign as King of kings and Lord of lords from Jerusalem. David, in his glorified body, will reign as King of Israel. We, in our glorified bodies, will be scattered across the earth to reign over those in the flesh. And the earth will be flooded with peace, righteousness and justice, as the waters cover the seas (Isaiah 2:1-4 and Isaiah 11:3-9).


Friday, October 26, 2012

Chrislam Divested

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

Why are people converting to Islam so much in Europe?

Dr. Reagan and I on our ministry's television show Christ in Prophecy had the pleasure of asking this question of Eric Barger of Take a Stand! Ministries. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become a great defender of Christianity in America. He joined us to talk about the Church's newest apostasy of adopting Chrislam.

Eric Barger

Nathan Jones: All throughout Europe people are giving up their Christianity and have gone to secularism. Instead, now the mosques there are flourishing. People are joining Islam like crazy. Why are people converting to Islam so much in Europe?

Eric Barger: It might be out of pressure. It might be out of deception. Certainly we are at the end of the end times, and when you see all the forces of the world being rallied together against Israel, I have to think this is part of what's meant to be going on. At this point in time we are watching these end times events unfold.

Dr. Reagan: I think all people are born with a spiritual hunger which is part of our make-up. We are born with an emptiness that needs to be filled spiritually. In Europe Christianity is dead because Christianity sold out to Humanism and began to teach that the Bible is not the Word of God, but the Bible is man's search for God and is full of myth, legend and superstition. People stopped going to church. The Anglican Churches of England are empty today. Only 5% of the people in England even bother to go to church anymore because there is nothing there worth hearing. And yet, there's still that spiritual hunger. I think people look at Islam and they see people who are dedicated, committed and believe. They are looking for something to believe in.

Eric Barger: Yes, you are exactly right. It is the failure of the Church in Europe that has caused the opening of the doors for everything non-Christian. This is why the cults are thriving. This is why we have kids who are floating around in the Emergent Church Movement that have no idea about the blood of Jesus, the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, and salvation by grace. They're not hearing these essential doctrines being taught. We need the doctrines of the faith to be taught by our pastors wherever they are.

Dr. Reagan: If the pastor of one of your churches suddenly announces that next Sunday they're going to reach out to Muslims and invite an imams to come to their church and speak, what should church members do?

Eric Barger: What should people do? They should protest with all their heart. They should warn everybody they can. It isn't that they're being unloving to the Muslims, it's just that this religion Islam has no place inside the Christian church and should be exposed for what it is — a satanic lie.

Dr. Reagan: Let them also pray that their pastor would be delivered from spiritual deception.

Thursday, October 25, 2012

Chrislam Dialogue

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

What does the Yale Divinity School dialogue have to do with Chrislam?

Dr. Reagan and I on our ministry's television show Christ in Prophecy had the pleasure of asking this question of Eric Barger of Take a Stand! Ministries. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become a great defender of Christianity in America. He joined us to talk about the Church's newest apostasy of adopting Chrislam.

Eric Barger

Dr. Reagan: In my research on Chrislam I discovered that there was a major Muslim-Christian dialogue that was held in 2008 and sponsored by the Yale Divinity School. It produced a document that many major Christian leaders have signed, including evangelical leaders. It basically talks about the fact that there are many points that are common between Islam and Christianity and that we ought to focus on those and not on the differences. The two main points they single out and really focused on are the love of God and the love of neighbor. The dialogue said these two are characteristic of both Christianity and Islam.

Eric Barger: First of all, we need to keep going back to the point that each religion has a different God. I know it sounds like we're being sticks in the mud and isolationists and so on, but I don't see any reason why I should give any credence towards or try to be friendly to a religion which has done this one thing to every person who has ever followed it, and that is people lose their soul by following Islam. Why should I be kind to it? And yet, the Yale Divinity School and some of the usual suspects that we see from the "squishy evangelicals" and also those in liberal circles gloss right over this important fact.

Dr. Reagan: I like the term "squishy evangelicals."

Eric Barger: That's really what they are. They are people who really just kind of go along and don't know what they believe. They just want everybody to like them. They want everyone to be one big happy family and all be friends. They talk about the love of God and the love of neighbor, but forget that in Islam they tell you that unless you convert to Islam you're still a member of the house of war. You're either a member of the house of peace in that you've become a Muslim, or you're a member of the house of war which is the infidels. That's everyone non-Muslim. There is no "live and let live" in Islam. And this is a Christian's idea that we can somehow join hands with Muslims? They do so based on the idea that they worship the same God that we do, and that's just simply not the case.

Dr. Reagan: When I see these Christian-Islam dialogues going on, knowing what I know about Islam, I've got to believe that the Muslim leaders must laugh all the way home after it's over with.

Eric Barger: I've said exactly the same thing.

Can I tell you the other dirty little secret? The people who are signing documents like the Yale Divinity School document, the dirty little secret is that these folks are pushing for a Palestinian State and they are anti-Israel. That is the thing. It's Replacement Theology. It's Dominionism. When you begin to trace down the roots, it comes back to what they believe about eschatology and Israel as a state.

Dr. Reagan: What gets me is how people talk about Islam as a religion of peace and tolerance and yet there is not a mosque that's going to allow a Christian to speak in their mosque. There's not a mosque that is going to have one of these dialogues held at a mosque. There is not an Islamic country in the world where there is any freedom of religion. You're either a Muslim or you're going to be dead, only one of the two. And yet, they talk about Islam as a religion of peace.

Eric Barger: Yes, the Saudi Arabian government put out a book that was for high school and junior high school students aimed at United States students. That book said that all across the Muslim world that other houses of worship have flourished and they welcomed them, but that's simply not true. Our soldiers can't even bring a New Testament with them when they go over to try to help one of those countries to overthrow a dictator.

Islam's Historical Treatment of Christianity

Nathan Jones: If Islam started around 600 AD, and so it's been around some 1400 years, does history show that Islam flourishes with Christianity? How did it treat Christianity throughout the centuries?

Eric Barger: Certainly all the saints who have been martyred along the way because they rejected Islam can testify. Mohammed when he went to Medina forced the Jews and Christians to either accept Islam or die. And, they died. They were martyred.

Dr. Reagan: Along that line several years ago, we held an interview with Mark Gabriel and produced an album called The Mark Gabriel Story. Mark Gabriel is a remarkable man. He grew up in Cairo and he had the whole Qu'ran memorized by the age of 12. That's remarkable because when it comes to the Qu'ran the imams won't allow it to be translated into modern Arabic. Mark didn't even know what he was saying. He just had the sounds. Then he became the number two in his class of almost 3,000 at the Al-Azhar University there in Cairo. He then became the Professor of Islamic History at the university there, as well as an imam in Gaza.

Mark said that looking back on Islamic history, he could sum it up in one sentence: "The history of Islam is a river of blood." Every place it has advanced it has advanced with the sword, not through conversions, but through the sword. It keeps people under control with the sword.

Eric Barger: I think the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in what is called the Arab Spring. The Arab Spring is really bad news for those Muslims who are trying to hide how Islam advances.

Heart's Desire

Christians must remember that this is not a hate campaign about Muslims. This is about trying to teach them about who the real God is and about who the real Jesus is. If that's what the Yale Divinity School was doing, and all of these as I call them squishy evangelicals who were signing these documents, I would be all for them. But, this is not where they're going with this though. This is not the goal of Chrislam. My goal here is to define the stark differences between Islam and Christianity and show how they can't be brought together. But, my heart's desire is to see Muslims get saved.

Dr. Reagan: Incidentally, this sort of blending of religions is going on in other areas. We recently had a Christian-Mormon dialogue in Salt Lake City where some major evangelicals went out there and they hugged on each other and even got up and apologized for the past persecution of Mormonism. They never point out any doctrinal differences. They never point out that they're going to Hell without Jesus being the one and only Savior.

Eric Barger: Yes, the Christian-Mormon dialogue happened in 2004, and may I say the guy who organized that at the Salt Lake City Temple also signed the Yale Divinity School document saying the Muslims and Christians are on the same path with the same God.

In the fifth and final segment of this series with Eric Barger on Chrislam, we will briefly look into the puzzle of why Europe is abandoning their historical Christianity and adopting Islam.

Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Chrislam Inside

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

What is the Insiders Movement about?

Dr. Reagan and I on our ministry's television show Christ in Prophecy had the pleasure of asking this question of Eric Barger of Take a Stand! Ministries. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become a great defender of Christianity in America. He joined us to talk about the Church's newest apostasy of adopting Chrislam.

Eric Barger

Dr. Reagan: You mentioned to me in a previous conversation something about the Insiders Movement. What in the world is that?

Eric Barger: The Insiders Movement is a movement inside Islam that says if you come to faith in Jesus while you're a Muslim you should just stay there. It is too much trouble to give up Islam as you'll lose your family and surely you might lose your life. Don't stand against Islam from inside it. Just stay there, perform the Five Pillars of Islam, make the five prayers per day, keep reading the Qu'ran, go to the mosque, and listen to the teachings of the imam. But, where then for a Christian is coming out from among them and being separate, that's the problem?

Dr. Reagan: That's like saying I know that you're worshipping Baal and you can go ahead with that idolatry, just have Jesus as one of your many gods.

Eric Barger: That's really what it comes down to. Tragically, there are people all throughout Christianity including some who claim to be evangelicals who are advocating this kind of apostasy. There are books that have been written that are helping to substantiate the idea of the Insiders Movement.

Dr. Reagan: One thing that people don't understand about Islam is the principle of abrogation. The Qu'ran was written over a long period of time. The very earliest statements in there about Christians and Jews are very positive. Christians are called the People of the Book, and Muslims initially were told that they should seek unity with them. Later on, when the Christians didn't accept what Mohammed had said, then he all of the sudden had new revelations from God that he was to kill and subdue these people. Abrogation means that Mohammed's newer revelations override his earlier revelations.

The principle of abrogation cannot be found in God's Word. After all, according to the Bible God doesn't change His mind. But, in the Qu'ran, Allah changes his mind. I've noticed in Western cultures like America when Muslims quote the Qu'ran they quote the early scriptures which have been abrogated, and they know that, but when they get into control they suddenly switch the scriptures that talk about putting Allah's enemies under subjection.

Nathan Jones: What do these Christian leaders who want to join with Islam do with verses like Surah 9:5, a surah being the Qu'ran's verse and chapter, "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Take them captives and besiege them and lie and wait for them in every ambush."

Or, how about Surah 2:191-193? "Kill them wherever you find them." Then, if you go to the Hadith, which is the collection of Mohammed's sayings, "And the last Imam would come not unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews. And the Muslims will kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and the stone or tree would say, 'Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him'" What do these Chrislam supporters do with these verses? These Koranic verses are teaching Muslims to just outright kill everybody unless they're a Muslim.

Eric Barger: There are a lot of Koranic verses especially that speak about slaying those who stand against Islam, and that's stated over and over again. There are also punishments for infidels like the cutting off of the right hand and the left foot as one of the punishments, and then of course there's execution. Killing infidels is the kind of horror that the Qu'ran teaches.

Let's go back to what Surah 4 states, which is a great example of Islam's view of other religions. The Qu'ran as it was written began to be compiled 18 years after Mohammed's death. So, it wasn't Mohammed actually writing it, but his followers wrote down what he taught his followers. It says in Surah 4, "O, people of the book." That's a term talking about Christians. "Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of Allah but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was no more than an apostle of Allah and his word which he bestowed on Mary in a spirit proceeding from him." It also says, "So say not Trinity, detest for it will be better for you. For Allah is one Allah, glory be to him above having a son." Surah 4 says clearly Allah didn't have a son.

A religion that denies the sonship of Jesus Christ to Father God, this is not a religion that Christians can join hands with. When we have people like at the Yale Divinity School who we've talked about who are reaching out to Muslims, they base their premise in a paper that they wrote and that many high profile Christian leaders have signed. They base their premise on the idea that we all worship the same God. If we do, then our God is a very confused God who has said one thing to one people and another thing to another people.

Dr. Reagan: So, the god of the Qu'ran is not the God of the Bible?

Eric Barger: Absolutely not!

Dr. Reagan: Point blank. I mean, he's just not. Anyone who thinks Allah is Jehovah God is deceived.

Eric Barger: Yes, I'm afraid so, that's exactly right. And yet, we have Christian leaders all around us saying, "Oh, it's not that big a deal. It's for world peace." That's going to be the cry of the end times, "It's for world peace."

Dr. Reagan: But, in the end, this call will be the damnation of people's souls.

Eric Barger: All we do is assure that Muslims who themselves are listening to Chrislam, or people who get involved in the Insiders Movement which is really Chrislam inside of Christian circles, all we are assuring is that they're going to have a convolution understanding of who God is and never have a clear picture of salvation through the blood of Jesus.

In the fourth segment of this series with Eric Barger on Chrislam, we will discuss more in depth the Yale Divinity School dialogue.

Tuesday, October 23, 2012

Chrislam Differentiated

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

Are Islam's Allah and Christianity's Jehovah God the same?

Dr. Reagan and I on our ministry's television show Christ in Prophecy had the pleasure of asking this question of Eric Barger of Take a Stand! Ministries. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become a great defender of Christianity in America. He joined us to talk about the Church's newest apostasy of adopting Chrislam.

Eric Barger

Nathan Jones: Soon after 9/11 we as a nation finally had to look hard at Islam and decide whether it had to do with terrorism or if it didn't. Then President George W. Bush came out after the fall of the twin towers and declared that we needed to have peace with our Muslim brothers because their god is our God. He claimed the Christian God and the Muslim God are one and the same, but is that true?

Eric Barger: No, that's not true. However, that was a political statement. Indeed President Bush is a Christian, I'll give him that much, but I don't think he understands what the differences are between Christianity and Islam. There are also a lot of people in the Church who are confused about this as well. We even see some evangelical Christian leaders who are claiming that Allah and Jehovah are the same God, by either the different ecumenical actions they are taking or by the things that they are saying about Islam. No wonder there is so much confusion! Certainly, though, President Bush made a political statement because he has to be the President of all the people in the United States, which includes those Muslims who are living here.

Nathan Jones: Who is Allah then to the Muslims? If he's not Jehovah God, then how is Allah different from Jehovah God?

Eric Barger: Back during the Seventh Century in the town of Mecca in what is now Saudi Arabia, there were over 300 different gods being worshipped around the Kabah stone. The Kabah monument is a meteor exactly. They believed that their god lives there. This is why Muslims pray towards Mecca wherever they are in the world. They pray five times a day at least. Back in that day there were all sorts of different gods and idols being worshipped in Mecca.

A man named Mohammed took it upon himself as the political, spiritual and military leader of his tribe to change the polytheistic practices in Mecca. He believed he had received a vision from the angel Gabriel while he was in a trance state in a cave and was given a command to bring a pure religion back to the world. By the sword Mohammed went about converting people to his viewpoint or it was off with their heads. We see this style of "evangelism" all throughout Islamic history. So, Mohammed took it upon himself to bring his tribal god alone to bear upon the world.

Mohammed's god is named "Allah" which means "God" in Arabic. If we were Arabic speakers we might use the word Allah if we were referring to God. But, there's got to be a clear delineation by Christians in the day we live in to discern between Jehovah and Allah as being two separate entities. Also, Esa or Jesus of the Qu'ran and Jesus Christ of the Bible who is God incarnate must also be understood as not being the same.

Nathan Jones: Allah was the moon god initially, correct?

Eric Barger: Allah was the moon god.

Nathan Jones: That would mean Allah wasn't the overall God who is all-powerful, he was just the god of the moon.

Eric Barger: Allah was the god of the Koresh tribe which was Mohammed's tribe. From the cave experience where Gabriel supposedly had shown him that his god was the only way, Mohammed decided his religion was the only right way and that there wasn't any other way.

Dr. Reagan: Islam is a monotheistic religion worshipping they say the one and only true God. Christianity is a monotheistic religion. So, if they both worship the one and only true God, don't they both worship the same God?

Eric Barger: They are not worshipping the same God. Jehovah God as shown to us in the Bible to the Jews and then to the Christians is different than the god of Islam. Islam worships the god that Mohammed's Koresh tribe worshipped.

If you read the Qu'ran and the Bible side by side you'll see that God must then have to be schizophrenic if He came up with both those books, because they just don't read the same. An example from the Qu'ran, it never mentions Allah as a god a love. Jesus of the Qu'ran is but a prophet. He is not God incarnate. The Qu'ran adamantly proclaims that God had no son. I think the greatest repudiation of Chrislam is from the Qu'ran in Surah chapter 4 where the Qu'ran clearly states that Christians should never speak the word "Trinity" and that we should understand that Allah never had a Son.

Dr. Reagan: Islam rejects the very idea of the Trinity. They reject the idea that God ever had a son. They reject the idea that Jesus was crucified on the cross. Islam claims an imposter was crucified in Jesus' place. Islam claims Jesus was never resurrected from the dead. And yet, if you were to invite an Islamic imam to come to your congregation and talk about Jesus, he would get up and talk about how much they love Jesus and how Jesus was mentioned in the Scriptures. Of course, the imam's not going to tell you that they don't believe the things that we believe about Jesus. It's very misleading.

Eric Barger: Yes, it is. They do believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, this is all in the Qu'ran, but by the same token they never deify Jesus. He is not deity to them. He is not God. This is a different Jesus, and the Apostle Paul warns us in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 about now following a different Jesus, different Gospels, and different spirits that will come along to deceive us. It is our responsibility to know what we believe so that when these other religious systems come along that mention a Jesus that we are able to discern whether they are talking about the real one or an imposter.

Dr. Reagan: What we are talking about is really two different gods here?

Eric Barger: We are.

Dr. Reagan: For example, the God of Islam is an arbitrary God. He is so arbitrary that even Mohammed said he didn't know for sure if he was saved or not, because salvation is just going to depend at the last judgment on whether God wants to save you or not, and you might never know. The only hope you have is maybe to die fighting as a martyr for Islam.

Differentiated Salvation

Nathan Jones: That's an excellent point, that Islam's salvation is totally different from the salvation taught in the Bible, right?

Eric Barger: Exactly, martyrdom is the only sure way in Islam for salvation. If you've done too many bad things you just don't know if you're going to make it in. Even if you followed the Five Pillars of Islam — the legalism of Islam — one just doesn't know. Islam has what's called Recording Angels. One writes down all the good stuff you do and one that writes down all the bad stuff you do. If the one writing down the bad stuff has more on his ledger than the one who writes down the good stuff, then you don't know if there's a way out of trouble except for martyrdom. That's so tragic.

In the third segment of this series with Eric Barger on Chrislam, we will discuss what the Insiders Movement is.

Monday, October 22, 2012

Chrislam Defined

Nathan JonesWatch MP3 PDFBy

What is Chrislam?

Dr. Reagan and I on our ministry's television show Christ in Prophecy had the pleasure of asking this question of Eric Barger of Take a Stand! Ministries. Eric is an authority on the cults, the New Age, and rock music today. From his past as a former drug addict and rock n' roll musician who was deeply involved in the New Age movement, Eric has emerged since he gave his life to Jesus Christ to become a great defender of Christianity in America. He joined us to talk about the Church's newest apostasy of adopting Chrislam.

Eric Barger

Nathan Jones: There is a new ecumenical movement that those who follow our ministry have been writing in and asking us to talk about. It's this idea that the Church blends Islam with Christianity and it is called Chrislam. Could you define Chrislam for us as you've been speaking about this topic a lot?

Eric Barger: I have been. I've also produced a DVD on Chrislam and have been speaking on it. It's one of my most requested seminars now, because it is something as believers we need to talk about.

Chrislam is the blending of Christianity and Islam. It came from Nigeria and it is less than 30 years old. In Nigeria an imam and a Christian pastor were literally having a type of civil war with each other, but they finally laid down their guns when they started looking at what they had in common. In the case of the Christian pastor, he didn't examine what they could never have in common, because they both based their discussions around the belief that Allah is also Jehovah. Esa, or Jesus mentioned 97 times in the Qu'ran, they concluded must also be the Jesus of the Bible.

People must begin to understand that by reading the Bible and the Qu'ran and comparing that Esa is clearly not Jesus and Allah is clearly not Jehovah. I personally believe every Muslim imam knows this, but they love the mileage they get out of it with the Christians who think we are being conciliatory or kind somehow by saying that we all worship the same God.

Dr. Reagan: Now, you say it started in Nigeria, but it spread from there, hasn't it?

Eric Barger: Yes, this imam and pastor are now traveling the world talking about the joys of Chrislam and how we can have joint services where we read both the Qu'ran and the Bible side by side. As a result of their teachings, there actually was a Chrislam Sunday here in the United States back on June 26, 2011. Several hundred churches brought a Muslim leader or cleric in and they read the Qu'ran and the Bible side by side in their Christian churches.

Nathan Jones: What about in the mosques? Did they read the Bible along with the Qu'ran?

Eric Barger: There weren't any mosques involved, only the churches. So, we can understand that Christianity alone is what suffers when churches begin to look at these two religions as being coequal. No imam is going to bring a Bible into his mosque and read it from the pulpit or allow a Christian to come in and talk about Jesus. Sure, they'll talk about Esa, but not the biblical Jesus. The Jesus of the Qu'ran is a prophet only. I think that everybody needs to understand that the Jesus of the Qu'ran is going to be Allah's enforcer who will eventually force everyone to become a Muslim. This isn't the Jesus of the Bible.

Dr. Reagan: Churches then are going to invite false teachers to come into their church simply because they want to show Muslims that we love them and that we respect them and we care for them. We've come a long way from the times of Elijah, haven't we?

Eric Barger: We have. Now look, I would go anywhere, and I've been criticized for this, and preach in the presence of the cultists if I could. I would be misunderstood for doing so, but I believe that's where we are supposed to take the truth. But, in this case, this is outright a promotion of Islam by these pastors' claiming that Islam is equal to Christianity. What they are really saying is that both religious paths lead to God. It is truly a form of Limited Universalism.

Dr. Reagan: Here's a quote from John Ashbrook: "A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position."

Eric Barger: Wow, that's a powerful quote!

Dr. Reagan: When it comes to talking about dialogue, which in this case started at Yale University, what's meant when we get together for dialogue is not to talk about differences, but to talk about where can we say that we agree and also to forget about any differences.

In the second segment of this series with Eric Barger on Chrislam, we will compare and contrast Islam's Allah with Christianity's Jehovah God.

Friday, October 19, 2012

Christian Approach to the 2012 Election: Salt and Light

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

How should a Christian approach this time in history?

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on his "God First" program. During the 45-minute interview we discussed how Christians should approach the 2012 election.

Brian Thomas

Brian Thomas: To wrap up this whole discussion and bring it all back together, how should Christians approach the election? We have of course already touched on many points, but there are a lot who say they're going to stay home. They say they just can't bring themselves to vote for either of the two presidential candidates. So, how should a Christian approach this election? Should they stay home, or should they like go and write in someone else's name?

Nathan Jones: As Christians who are members of the Church, while we are living on this planet, we've been tasked by God with being the restrainer of evil in all levels of society.

Certainly, we know this world is going to perish. If you've studied the Bible you've studied Bible prophecy and it infers that the United States will eventually join the coming global government. It will happen one day. The Bible says the global government will be controlled by a figure called the Antichrist who will wage war against the planet and try to destroy Israel. It's inevitable. It's going to happen.

But, while we Christians are still here on this earth waiting for the Rapture of the Church, we've got to fulfill our purpose in life. Ephesians 2:10 tells us that this is why we were created and this is what we are meant to do. It reads, "For we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do." So, while we remain here, we need to be that salt and light in the earth. We need to get out there and restrain evil. Whether we restrain evil by helping our neighbor, by sharing the Gospel, or by going out and voting for the candidate who will also try to restrain evil as much as possible such as a congressman or senator or whomever, we need to be out there and be the restrainers of evil. That's how I believe Christians should approach this election, not by party affiliation or by what we can get personally for ourselves, but by doing God's work all the way up until Jesus Christ returns.

I'd like to add this quote I just read today which really hit me. It's by the Russian columnist Stanislav Mishini who wrote this four years ago for Pravda. He wrote this, "The proud American will go down into his slavery without a fight, beating his chest, and proclaiming to the world, how free he really is. The world will only snicker." What he said really hit me. What if we spend all of our time proclaiming how free we are, but in our immorality give ourselves over to a repressive government and oppressive system that takes our freedom away and chains us into slavery to our own immorality? If the Russians endured 70 years living under a totalitarian communist regime sees us going in that direction, then we should take heed and listen to his warning.

Brian Thomas: Yes, I agree with you 100%, Nathan. That's why I wanted you to share on this topic and hopefully we can influence people out there, not just Christians, but we can influence everyone on the right way to approach the election and even going forward. As you stated, it doesn't matter who our President will be if we continue to go down the road of immorality in this nation. We just will not have success without God and we're going to be doomed. The hearts of the people have to change and we have to turn back to God.

If anyone wants to know what's going to happen to our nation, as you touched on earlier, all we have to do is turn to our Bible. Look at the nation of Israel. Go to the Old Testament and look at what happened and how they went through cycle after cycle of turning away from God, then the judgment of God fell upon them, and then the nation turned back to God repentance. We can read about that cycle occurring over and over and over again.

We're calling out for a time of repentance for this nation. If we don't have that repentance, I think we are going to see judgment come upon us even more than it already has.

With that being said, I don't want to paint a picture here that our future is all gloom and doom. Sometimes as people who focus on Bible prophecy, many tend to view us as just gloom and doom type of people. But, I will say this, I was at your ministry's conference back in June and I've never been in a Christian atmosphere in which I saw so many people smiling and laughing and just having a good time. I stopped and asked myself, "Why do people say it is always gloom and doom?" I mean, we were some of the most happy people there you will ever see. So, when you put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, good times are ahead, but we have to be the watchman on the wall to warn the people that if we don't do things God's way what the consequence will be.

Nathan Jones: Absolutely right! Thank you for that. I am glad you got to see happy people at our June conference, Brian.

Bible prophecy is tough because we are at the darkest hour right now. We are at a point in history where it's all coming down. Satan is going to have one big last push to take over the world, and the world is going to burn through it. The Tribulation, that seven years of the wrath of God that's coming on this planet, is coming soon. We can get really focused on the coming horrors because that's so near. But, the far is so much more important, because once you get over all the the gloom and the doom and the destruction which certainly will come, it means Jesus Christ returns. It means He defeats evil. It means He sets up His kingdom of peace, righteousness and justice. It means life spans are extended, the curse is lifted, and Jesus rules and reigns. It means that we then live on throughout eternity. That's a wonderfully exciting time coming up! That's the big picture, and that's what we've got to look forward to.

Brian Thomas: Amen and amen! It's going to be interesting to see what takes place over the next couple months with this election and where our nation goes from there.

Do you have any final words before we wrap things up?

Nathan Jones: Brian, I just want to say — thank you, it's been a blessing. Keep up the great work, Man. I know it's hard to stand for righteousness in this day and age, but you're a great lamp who is doing just that.

Thursday, October 18, 2012

Christian Approach to the 2012 Election: Post-Election

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

What will happen to the United States as a result of the 2012 election?

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on his "God First" program. During the 45-minute interview we discussed how Christians should approach the 2012 election.

Brian Thomas

Brian Thomas: Nathan, I want you to kind of put on your prophecy hat for a minute here. Depending on the outcome of the 2012 election, where do you see our nation going from there?

Nathan Jones: The election, as vitally important as it is, is really more of a representation of a more fundamental issue, and that's the morality of our nation. This election is a test of where we are at morally. Unfortunately, if we fail this it doesn't matter what candidate gets in. If we continue to slip into the immoral abyss that we have been falling into to so rapidly, we will be just like 2 Chronicles 36:15-17 which reads:

"The Lord the God of their fathers sent word to them again and again by His messengers because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His Words and scoffed at His prophets until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people until there was no remedy. Therefore He brought up against them the kings of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirmed. He gave them all into his hands."

If we as a nation continue to slip morally out of God's law, then He will have no use for us as an avenue of His grace upon the world. We'll no longer be sending out missionaries, sending out help to the needy, and being a stabilizer with our military throughout the planet. God will take that away from us and we will become a third world nation totally destroyed by infighting, by being taken over by corrupt ideology, and possibly even leading to civil war.

We individually and collectively as a nation have to look at the Bible and see that God wants us to focus on His morality. We as Christians need to be focused on that and helping people to know Jesus as their Savior, because a country will not be really changed by an election. You're ultimately going to change a country by the people in it by the changing of their hearts towards Jesus Christ.

Brian Thomas: Amen, amen!

In the last part of Brian and my interview concerning the Christian's approach to the 2012 election, we'll explain how a Christian should approach this time in history.

Wednesday, October 17, 2012

Christian Approach to the 2012 Election: Christian and Democrat?

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Can one be a Christian and support the Democratic Party?

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on his "God First" program. During the 45-minute interview we discussed how Christians should approach the 2012 election.

Brian Thomas

Brian Thomas: This is a testy, touchy question, but can a person be a true Christian and yet support the Democratic Party?

Nathan Jones: How can anyone support any political entity which removes God from His position of authority, that removes the Bible as our foundational moral principle and the Constitution as our ultimate protector of rights? That removes freedom as a way of life and replaces our national sovereignty with a global government in rebellion against God? That wants to enslave its own population and especially its own poor with government handouts? Which supports putting over 50 million of our children to death? That ends up calling what God calls good evil and evil good? How could any Christian who loves Jesus Christ and accepted Him as Savior support any organization, affiliation, political party, or candidate that supports all of that? I just can't see how any Christian could.

Brian Thomas: I was having a conversation with a person on Facebook shortly after the Democratic Party had their vote whether to leave the removal of God or not from their platform. I made the comment asking Christians how they could support a party that has taken God out of their beliefs. I said I would not support them. Well, some person responded to me by asking, "I guess you also do not support the public school system because they've removed God?" I thought to myself that they'd have to come up with something better than that if they wanted to try to defend their support of a party that excludes God. But, there is no defense for it.

If God is removed from anything there is just no winning. There is no way possible you can't take God out of anything and expect it to be successful. I would just like for so many people to really open their eyes and wake up to this fact. I think there are a lot of people who deep down inside they do know this, but they just don't want to accept the fact or face the truth, they want to go along with tradition and stereotypes. Whatever it is they made an allegiance to, whether it might be their race or their political party, they have more of an allegiance to those things than they do to God. That's just really troubling for me, especially when I look at people who say they are Christians but are voting against their own biblical morality.

Nathan Jones: It's sort of like supporting a sports team. Take the Cowboys for instance. They're not doing so hot. But, you know, here in Texas we love the Cowboys. We'll support them no matter what. No matter how many times they fumble and make mistakes and all that, they're our home team so we're going to support them. I think people take politics like sports. They believe such a party is their home team, so they are going to agree with it no matter what they do because they are showing allegiance and loyalty. When it comes to a sports team, it might represent fair play or not, but sports are not really that important. But, when you talk about the morality of God and whether we follow Him or not, then it becomes ultimately important where our loyalties lie. Does our loyalty lie to our favorite sport team? Our favorite candidate? Our favorite party? Or, does our loyalty lie with God the Creator of the Universe, the One who saved us and gave us His moral law? That is the question that every Christian needs to ask themselves.

Brian Thomas: Yes, amen! I'll just say this as well, and it's probably not the best analogy, but you and I we are both married men. We support our wives of course, but we don't agree on every single thing they do. There is no married couple I would think that has ever agreed 100% on every single issue. You sometimes have to voice your differences regardless.

I would at least say to Christians out there, at least if you're going to stay with a party that is going against God, at least be willing to stand up and speak out against the things that they are doing and saying that are against God. Don't just go along with them simply because as you stated they're your favorite team. Don't take that approach. At least be willing to say, "Hey, we need to change this or else we're going to be on the wrong side of God's favor."

In the next part of Brian and my interview concerning the Christian's approach to the 2012 election, we'll try to discern what the United States will look like post-election, and review how a Christian should approach this time in history.

Tuesday, October 16, 2012

Christian Approach to the 2012 Election: Litmus Test

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Where do the Presidential candidates stand on abortion, same-sex marriage and Israel?

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on his "God First" program. During the 45-minute interview we discussed how Christians should approach the 2012 election.

Brian Thomas

Brian Thomas: I have what I call my political litmus test. My litmus test includes three things that I look at when it comes to a candidate. I will look at their stance on abortion, their stance on same-sex marriage, and then their stance on Israel. Let's make a quick comparison between Barack Obama who is the one who claims to be a Christian and Mitt Romney who is the one who is a Mormon. Where do they stand on these three issues?

Nathan Jones: All anyone has to do is go to their party's website. You can go to which is the Democrats official party platform website, and you can go to which states the Republican party's platform. You can read up on both parties and find out exactly what they believe. The sites state very clearly what they believe regarding your litmus test.

Regarding abortion, I can quote for you exactly what the Democrats believe from "The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe vs. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion regardless of ability to pay."

Then, let's go to the "We support a human life amendment to the Constitution that endorses legislation to make clear that the 14th Amendment protections apply to unborn children. Republican leadership has led the effort to prohibit the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion, and we salute those who provide them with counseling and adoption alternatives."

Concerning abortion, those are the two platforms' views written right there. Supporting abortion is the Democrats, while those against abortions are the Republicans.

Next, let's go to same-sex marriage or homosexuality which God calls in the Bible an abomination. The following is what the Democratic platform right out of their website states: "We support marriage equality and support the movement to secure equal treatment under law for same-sex couples. The administration said that the word family and immigration includes LGBT relationships."

As for the Republicans, on, their platform states: "We affirm our support for a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union or one man and one woman."

The official party line of the Democrats is total support of homosexuality and same-sex marriage, while the Republicans do not support it.

Brian, you said your third test concerned Israel. This subject has been the center of a lot of contention, because the Democrats have recently added Israel back into their platform, but this is what the Democratic platform says now concerning Israel: "President Obama and the Democratic Party maintain an unshakable commitment to Israel's security. President Obama and the Democratic Party seek peace between Israel and the Palestinians, a just and lasting Israeli-Palestinian Accord producing two states for two people. Jerusalem is and will remain the capital of Israel." That sounds good.

Republicans say pretty much the same thing about Israel as the Democrats: "The security of Israel is a vital national security interest of the United States. Our alliance is based not on shared interest, but on shared values. We support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State, with secure defensible borders. And we envision two Democratic States; Israel with Jerusalem as its capital, and Palestine living in peace and security."

Here we have the Democrats and the Republicans having almost identical statements. They believe that the Israelis should give up their land to the Palestinians and create a two state solution. I think anybody who can look at a map would see that such a loss of territory makes Israel totally defenseless against their very hostile neighbors. When it comes to Israel in the litmus test, I would say both parties failed on that point.

Brian Thomas: When it comes to the abortion issue, I speak on that a lot because we have killed 50 million babies. I saw recently a study that said if it were not for abortions we would have about 70 million more people in our nation right now. I think about how much better the economy would be. You just look at how the natural result of this sin has produced an economy that is struggling. It's not just here in the US, but all around the world. Just think about the millions of people who would be working and providing taxes and all these skills who if allowed to have lived would be contributing to the global economy. Just that in and of itself is a judgment that comes due to our sin.

I'm very passionate about the blight of abortion because my mother shared with me that when she was carrying me the doctor actually encouraged her to abort me. He said that if she didn't I would either be born deformed or retarded. She said she never considered it. She just put her faith and trust in God. Now, here I am. I'm now one who is ministering and sharing the Gospel. I think of how many people we have killed through abortion that could be out now proclaiming the Word of God as well. Abortion is just a troubling topic for me.

When it comes to the same-sex marriage rights, I heard Anne Graham Lotz say that if God does not judge our nation for what we are doing then He's going to have to issue an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah. I think that is something that should really be a wake up call to a lot of people in our nation.

Nathan Jones: Amen, brother! My youngest son was actually born mentally retarded. Zachary is severely autistic, though we didn't know that at the time of his birth because you don't find out your child's autistic until they're about 1 1/2 to 2 years old. But, if a doctor had said to me that my son was going to be autistic the rest of his life and that his mother and me were going to have to take care of him the rest of his life, would I have aborted him? Well, no, it wouldn't have occurred to me because God values life and humanity.

Mostly as a people we only look short-term. I can totally sympathize if a young girl has gotten pregnant out of wedlock and she and her boyfriend are scared and they don't know what to do. They choose an abortion because they made a quick short-term decision. When you look long-term, though, at what abortion does, it's not just to the millions of lives that are killed obviously, but all the guilt that the women have to live with.

Also, look at the statistics in France right now where there is a huge influx of Muslims migrating into their country. In France because they abort so many of their children most families only have one child. When the Muslims come into the country they don't abort, and they have eight children per family. Do you know by the year 2050 there will be less native French people than the influx of immigrants coming in? France is breeding themselves out of existence. Every nation in Europe is following suit, and even in America we are only maintaining the status quo because of the large Latino influx. Nations that abort are breeding themselves into oblivion. Countries and peoples that adopt abortion as a regular practice will eventually breed themselves out of existence.

Brian Thomas: Very interesting. The damage abortion does to a people and culture is so sad. You and I can see that, but there are so many who still do not. The level of discernment is just out the window. Of course, that's what happens when you turn away from God. The discernment goes away as well.

Speaking of discernment going away, we saw recently something I will be honest I'd never imagine I'd see in my lifetime in our nation as far as turning away from God. We saw at the Democratic Convention where they actually removed God and Jerusalem from their platform, and then nationally we witnessed what happened next. The Democratic Convention went back to return those names because of the backlash they received from the public. There were people actually shaking their fists at the idea of putting God and Jerusalem back into their party's official platform. That's just something I never imagined seeing in my life time, yet we saw it played out just a few weeks ago. What are your thoughts on this?

Nathan Jones: Pulling God and Jerusalem out and then having to put them back in just made a mockery of the whole voting system of the Democratic Convention. Clearly they had removed God and Jerusalem from their party platform on purpose, but didn't think anyone would notice. When it came to a verbal vote to restore those names, the mayor of San Antonio here from Texas was the moderator who had to get a two-thirds call vote to be able to amend their platform. He didn't get it. Three times running he called for a verbal vote among the electorate and only 50% of the people "yahed" about putting God and Jerusalem back in. The other 50% booed emphatically like you said shaking their fists. The mayor who was up on the stage clearly didn't know how to handle this dilemma. Some woman came up next to him and pointed to the TelePrompTer and she indicated to him to read from it. The news reported the TelePrompTer had a message from Obama which ordered they will vote the words back in. So, that is what the mayor did, he voted it in even though there clearly wasn't a two-thirds vote. And so, the Democrats returned God and Jerusalem to their platform, as I read earlier one of the statements which they added back in.

Well, if half the party wants to remove God out of their party's foundation and God's work through Jerusalem, especially His eternal work through Jerusalem, then what does that say about the party?

Brian Thomas: Exactly! Of course, we are not here to promote a particular political party. We are basically here to encourage Christians to vote based on the principles of God. But, we have to look at what one party believes versus another, and we have to look at where they stand when it comes to the principles of God.

In light of the Democrat Party, we see they have such a liberal stance on so many things. They actually did vote to take God out. We see their liberal stance when it comes to abortion, and just so many other moral issues from the Bible.

In the next part of Brian and my interview concerning the Christian's approach to the 2012 election, we'll see if a Christian can after looking at what the Democratic Party stands for as a whole truly support that party.

Monday, October 15, 2012

Christian Approach to the 2012 Election: National Judgment

Nathan JonesMP3 PDFBy

Could America not having a true Christian candidate for the presidency be a judgment from God?

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, I was interviewed by host Brian Thomas of Blessings to Israel Ministries on his "God First" program. During the 45-minute interview we discussed how Christians should approach the 2012 election.

Brian Thomas

Brian Thomas: As you mentioned earlier, we have what seems to be a Humanist who claims Christianity as one candidate and then we have a Mormon on the other. It is very obvious that we do not have a true Christian as a candidate for the presidency. Could this be a sign from God as a judgment upon our nation being that we really don't have a true Christian candidate?

Nathan Jones: Absolutely. If there was any more perfect example to look at it's Israel. God used Israel in the Old Testament and later in the New to demonstrate how God operates, which has never changed. When the people of the nation of Israel became evil, God gave them an evil king. The evil king would punish his own people with injustice and high taxes, and basically enslave them and ruin the country. But, when the people were good and followed God and listened to the prophets and the teachers He sent, then God would grant them a good king and he would grow the nation. There would be justice and prosperity. Time and time again Israel is filled with examples, like if you read through the Kings and the Chronicles, of God using leaders as judgment on the people for good or for bad.

Because of God's example through Israel, yes, I firmly believe that we are getting a President right now, and not just a President but a Congress and judicial system and the entire framework of our government, that can be used to bless the Lord if the people are good. But, it can also be used to punish the people for the purpose of bringing the people to cry out from underneath their persecution and their burdens due to an evil government to call out to the Lord in repentance for relief.

Brian Thomas: I find that so interesting. People will commonly agree that God is the one who puts a certain person in as President. I agree with you that God does control who's there and who's not, but it may not be as much of a blessing as we would like to think. There are some people who say God puts leaders in so therefore they are always a blessing, and yet, as you stated, there is example after example in the Bible in which with the nation of Israel God established a leader there as a judgment on those people because of their rebellion and sin. Many would cry out, but then there were still be some even in the midst of judgment and the burdens on them who still still didn't realize why they were suffering. They didn't get it, and they still don't understand it. That God could put in leaders for His judgment is kind of baffling to some.

The fact is that we've killed 50 million babies legally through abortion in this nation. We are a large engine for the world's pornographic film business. Then there's our rated R movies and all the types of filth we pump out of country. We've of course as a nation turned our backs on Israel. Because of these sins, I think all of these things together are God's way of saying, "Okay, if you want to turn away from me and my commands, if you don't want me in your schools, if you don't want me in your public places, if you don't want to pray to me or for me, then I'm going to step away." I think by that response what we are looking at is the very judgment of God. I believe that this maybe is one of the early phases of judgment on this nation that we are in, and I think it may be very well that the worst is still yet to come.

Nathan Jones: Sadly true. We look at Romans 13:1 a lot where it tells us that God is the one who raises up and tears down leaders. We assume that since God is good therefore all the leaders God gives us have got to then be good leaders. But, that's not the case at all. God gives us good leaders certainly, but He can also give us bad leaders to punish us. Right now especially, enduring the incredible decline in the United States in the last 10 years due to bankrupting us from two war, the moral lapse of this country, the running up of the debt burden which will collapse us as a world power, and the shrinking of our military, they all reveal that America is quickly losing its power and strength under the leadership we've been given. It's a punishment on us all. It is a punishment, but it's primary purpose is to call us back to God to place Him back in as the moral king of this country again. Then God will give us a again a president and all those who serve as administrators underneath who will follow God and love God. That will be when the country flourishes once more.

In the next part of Brian and my interview concerning the Christian's approach to the 2012 election, we'll look at each candidate's stand on abortion, same-sex marriage and Israel.