By Nathan Jones
As the United States descends into evil, is there's hope for a revival?
To answer that question, were were blessed to have on our program Christ in Prophecy Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. Rabbi Cahn is the spiritual leader of the Beth Israel Worship Center in Wayne, New Jersey and best-selling author of the book The Harbinger and a new book titled The Mystery of the Shemitah. Both books have been best sellers and highly controversial in Christian circles.
The Bible teaches that God never pours out His wrath on a nation without first sending remedial judgments and prophetic voices to warn of God's impending judgment and to call the nation to repentance. Rabbi Cahn believes that when it comes to the United States, God already has been emphatically warning us, and since we haven't listened, is delivering us from judgment to destruction. And, as always has been the case with anyone who historically speaks out in prophetic manner calling people for repentance, Jonathan has of course been severely attacked.
In this series we are going to discuss his basic message concerning God's warnings to America and also ask him about some of the accusations that have been hurled against him.
[Note: The interview has been put into article format for ease of reading. For an unedited transcript, please click the PDF button above.]
The Descent Into Evil
Nathan Jones: Rabbi Cahn, do you believe that since the United States has removed God out of our school systems and out of our government and everything else basically, that if we actually are following the pattern of Israel, then are we now here at Romans 1:24 where it says, "Therefore God delivered them over to the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worship something created instead of the Creator who is praised forever. Amen." Then Romans goes on to say how worse and worse and worse the people will get.
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, the principle is already in effect. It begins with the people turning away from God. They are not worshiping God but they are going after the Creation instead of the Creator. Then Romans says God gives them over to sexual immorality. We are there now in society.
The pattern of ancient Israel is that when the people were blessed, they then sought the blessings only instead of the Blesser. In that driving God out of their culture, well we've done that. It's already been happening since the '60's the '70's. We're continuing to drive God out. Then the people start calling what is evil "good" and what is good "evil." They go right together. The more a nation calls what is evil "good," it will call what is good like believers and God "evil."
The next state is to start promoting sexual immorality. We are there now as well. And, people have also started lifting up their children as sacrifices, just as Israel did to Baal and Molech. People say, "How can you compare that to America?" America has not lifted up thousands of children, no, it has lifted up millions of children on the altar or convenience. We have killed over 50 million of our own children in this country alone! God says, "You have blood on your hands, how then can I hear you?" So if that's not judgment, if that doesn't cry out for judgment, then nothing does. We have blasphemed God!
Hope of Revival
Dr. Reagan: People are always asking me, "Do you think there is any hope for revival? Can we have revival?" I say of course there is hope for revival. In fact, there's even an example of it in the history of Judah. Manasseh was the worst king that they had, but they had a tremendous revival right after his reign with King Josiah. But, the moment Josiah died, it had become so ingrain in the fabric of the nation that they immediately turned back to their paganism. God then had to take care of the nation.
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, we have different templates. We have that which the judgment was forestalled because of Josiah and a turning. Nineveh was totally saved in Jonah's time, for awhile that is.
We have other templates. With Sodom there was nothing. It just wasn't there anymore by the time God was done eradicating them. So, if I look at the culture and if I look at my own understanding, I just don't see any hope. How do you turn this sin craze around? But, there's God, and God is always greater than what we think is possible.
Do I believe what is going to happen to this nation is judgment? From this template, and God's following it, I do believe we are going to have a great shaking of this nation. I believe there's going to be a gigantic shaking. I believe that it will effect out economy and it will collapse. I believe there will be a financial collapse, and I believe that there will be more than that because the pattern is that judgment escalates just as apostasy escalates. We have 9/11, I believe that was just a foreshadowing of things to come.
Nathan Jones: Money is our real god, right?
Jonathan Cahn: That is part of our apostasy, yes.
People ask me if there's a shaking, how then is there hope? I believe that it is the opposite. Only if there's a shaking can there be hope. Remember that most of us came to the Lord because of a shaking in our lives. Same with the nations. Will it be judgment or revival? I believe it can be both. I believe it could be judgment, and yet out of that there will be people turning to the Lord — a remnant. Those who turn, they are the revival. That to me is at this point our only hope.
I believe that a greater shaking is going to happen. I believe that God's will is that through the shaking there will be revival and salvation among those who turn. But, it's going to take that shaking. We have grown so deaf that God has to shout to us.
From Majority to Marginalized
Dr. Reagan: One of the things that concerns me is the way in which Christians have now been marginalized in our society. The core of our Christian belief was the core of Christianity just 25-30 years ago. Now we're considered to be fanatics on the margin because we believe in the literal meaning of the Bible.
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, that's exactly what happened to Israel with their faithful prophets, and that's what's happening here. We had people who were in times past would have been the heroes. Then, all of the sudden, they become the marginalized people. They become those who are persecuted. When the people lifted up the prophets of Baal, they then became the centerpiece of their culture. Baalism had been on the extreme, they had been on the fringe, they had been in the dark, but now they were lifted up. The opposite is then the culture will seek to put believers in the dark. They started persecuting the prophets, like persecuting Elijah. King Ahab goes to Elijah and says, "You troubler of Israel!" But Elijah refuses to be redefined by Ahab. He replies, "No, you are the troubler of Israel! I'm following God. You departed from Him." It's very important that we don't let the culture redefine us.
The point is that scenario is exactly the case to the exact degree that the nation or culture enshrines darkness and calls it "light." An evil society will call the light "darkness." Every time darkness or immorality is accepted, righteousness is persecuted.
Dr. Reagan: The thing that is so disturbing about all of this is the number of Christian leaders who get right in bed with those who promote evil because they want the approval of society.
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, that's right, because now the cost is greater. If someone says something in support of God's moral law, then their neck is stuck out, and few want to do that. Then they get persecuted. But, if nobody speaks up, then the moral point is lost, especially if nobody stands up.
There are a lot of another level of pastors and leaders — those who just don't want to talk about it. They will say they can't say anything anymore. You see this happen frequently. We are in trouble as followers of Christ if we do not stand up for what is right.
Dr. Reagan: The same thing happened historically in Hitler's Germany.
Jonathan Cahn: Yes, exactly, and there were very few who stood up for what was right. They were the radical ones.
When you look back at history, God judges these bold believers as the great ones. We've got to be great. We cannot be afraid. This is not the time. When the dark gets darker, the lights have to shine brighter.
In the fifth and last segment of our interview with Jonathan Cahn on America, we'll travel back to the founding of the United States and be amazed at the miracle of the "Mystery Ground."