Comments on The Christ in Prophecy Journal: Hitchcock Discusses the US in Isaiah 18

"voluntary in the first half, mandatory in the sec...

2010-02-12T17:16:47.863-06:00

"voluntary in the first half, mandatory in the second half."

That's a strong contender I hadn't thot of...
Thanx

That's a very interesting discussion topic, DrNofo...

2010-02-12T15:08:23.050-06:00

That's a very interesting discussion topic, DrNofog. When during the Tribulation will the Mark be given?

We know the Rider on the White Horse is the Antichrist, revealed at the beginning of the Tribulation by the breaking of the First Seal Judgment and begins the Tribulation by signing the peace covenant with Israel (Dan. 9:26-27). Rev. 13 is just filling in the details about the Antichrist and his False Prophet, and so it could be taken that the Mark begins with his reign.

But, there's the one-world religious harlot that needs to be killed mid-way before the world worships the Antichrist, pledging their loyalty with the Mark. This would put the Mark requirement in the second half or Great Tribulation.

My own thought is like the Nazi's who wore the swastika armbands, the Mark will be a symbol of his empire - voluntary in the first half, mandatory in the second half.

Nathan, You have numerous archive articles and co...

2010-02-10T17:53:42.036-06:00

Nathan,

You have numerous archive articles and comment postings that make the point of the saints that endure to the end.

My question for your thots is more on the timing of the decree of the mark in Rev. 13:16.

It seems to me that the mark and demand for alliegance to the rest of the world would not be before the abomination, but would be in response for the Jews refusing to worship A/C shortly after the "in the midst of the week" desecration. And that is followed by the angels of Rev. 14:6, 9. And, although he will be going after the Jews, he also has his plate full with events around the rest of the world... "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him..." Daniel 11:44

Thots??

Gotta have believers who pass the Sheep-Goat Judgm...

2010-02-10T16:20:17.961-06:00

Gotta have believers who pass the Sheep-Goat Judgment and go on to populate the Millennial Kingdom. Then there's the 144,000 sealed, and then the third of the remnant of Israel who are protected in the desert saved. So, there will be a lot of believers around to survive the Tribulation.

Reality Check! There is a great multitude that is...

2010-02-10T11:57:38.911-06:00

Reality Check!

There is a great multitude that is martyred during the Trib and there is also a great multitude that does not take the mark and yet they endure to the end alive and they go into the Kingdom to have children.

I think there will always be "do-gooders" [Golden Rule, works...] that have compassion on the saints, supply them with things they need to survive the 3 1/2 yrs and will foster an underground economy.

I'm not sure how much of a time lag there is from the decree of the mark in Rev. 13:16 to the angel flying, having the everlasting gospel [Rev. 14:6] and to the 3rd angel issuing the warning of the mark Rev. 14:9 and then how much time to the end, but obviously, the saints don't all get rounded up and axed. It takes time to ferret them out.

Maybe David & Nathan might chime in with some thots on this...

Aaron said: Son of thunder. rev 13 says the beast ...

2010-02-09T17:24:17.096-06:00

Aaron said: Son of thunder. rev 13 says the beast forced everyone great and small.....

A better translation of the Greek word poy-eh-o is "ordained" and it also means "transgress the law" - Strong's. So what these verse say is that the 2nd beast will ordain that all take this mark or they will be breaking the law. Even though this is a "forced" thing, there is still the choice: take it and live or not take it and die. They're not going to forcibly hold somebody under a laser-etcher or chip-installer or whatever.

It's a terrible choice to have to make (Tribulation saints won't take it and will be instantly herded off to die), but those in the world will take it because 1) they have no other hope and 2)self-preservation will kick in. It will probably be common knowledge what the penalty is and most would rather live in security as a slave than die as a free man.

Son of Thunder I comfort myself with the thought o...

2010-02-09T15:18:36.694-06:00

Son of Thunder
I comfort myself with the thought of how God has used Brit in the past. I think the Balfour Declaration may be why The Lord has been so long suffering with us. I like to hope that those old timers prayed for our generation, men like George Whitfield, who took the Gospel to the U.S. and came from my home town, maybe The Lord is honouring their prayer’s, otherwise I dread to think how much worse things could be.

Certainly the Mosques are filled to capacity every Friday, more than the Churches are on Sundays, and they are being converted into other uses, being stripped of their contents which are then sold on at auctions. I have seen pulpits, stained glass; pews even discarded Hymn books, mountains of them at a nearby reclamation yard. It is truly sad to see. We have some fabulous old Cathedrals, ours is around 1800 years old (The setting for ‘Harry Potter’s’ Hogwarts school was filmed there)That speaks volumes of the attitude of the English Church! Ecumenism, Alpha, Toronto, Purpose Driven now Emergent that comes in and swamps us like the tide.
Maranatha!

RG. Frucht’s books are certainly worth the hand ...

2010-02-09T15:17:15.776-06:00

RG.
Frucht’s books are certainly worth the hand cramps I get holding them. I had Israeology for at least a year before reading it. It was exactly what I needed trying to understand the Premil. version of Covenant Theology. It isn’t an ‘easy’ read, yet it is certainly worth the effort to apply oneself. I agree over Ladd, and the others, with all that intellect yet they are neutralised by their determination to be controversial and ‘different’, or is it plain old ‘rebellion’? What a waste of brain power! Your analogy of a corrupt lawyer is spot on. Eloquence or ‘verbal diarrhoea’?

Have you listened to ‘Come and See’ Frucht’s Discipleship Training Schedule? In the ‘Messianic Bible Study’ is a section concerning Israel and the Jews MBS 179 – LO27. It has helped me a great deal to understand this subject.

http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm

Nathan Gen Xers? DrNofog Americans prancing! Hm...

2010-02-09T15:15:53.268-06:00

Nathan
Gen Xers?

DrNofog
Americans prancing! Hm that conjures up an interesting picture, do they do ‘high fives’n all, and shout ‘yeeha’? ;)

Now Pike I have heard of when reading up on the Masons, one and the same methinks.

Replacement theology has a lot to answer for – dare I suggest that it, combined with the perverted teaching of the so called ‘British Israelites’ cult, is behind the reason why some normally sound Brits and U.S. Christians, look for GB and the USA in the Bible. Their Scripture twisting has even filtered through to fundamentalists. Imo.

Rockerfeller’s words may come back to bite his bum come judgment day! No good him whining ‘but I didn’t know’!

Aaron, you'd be right that many Bible prophecy stu...

2010-02-09T14:56:44.814-06:00

Aaron, you'd be right that many Bible prophecy students today see the chip linked to the Mark. They read Mark and its requirement to buy and realize the technology needed to control buying/selling and leap to the conclusion that the Mark and the chip are one. While I don't dismiss they may be related, the Scriptures don't tell us so I don't make the same conclusion.

I've wondered... if the Mark was an implant, why didn't John say that everyone was required to have something placed "in" their skin, rather than "on" their skin.

RG... Dude! You are soooo doomed!!! For a modest ...

2010-02-09T13:49:35.529-06:00

RG...
Dude! You are soooo doomed!!!

For a modest fee$$$$$, I'll dig it out for you and then you'll be Ok!
Trust me...
;-D

Hey Aaron and Nathan, I've got one on my shoulder ...

2010-02-09T13:36:50.109-06:00

Hey Aaron and Nathan,
I've got one on my shoulder (chip). Does that count?

rg

Son of thunder. rev 13 says the beast forced every...

2010-02-09T11:01:55.881-06:00

Son of thunder. rev 13 says the beast forced everyone great and small.....

nathan. I know it doesn't say chip but i thought there was wide consensus even on this blog that a chip of some sort was likely given the rise of surveillance society, etc. is that not true? thx in advance.

DrNoFog: I love your comment about replacement the...

2010-02-08T19:28:05.837-06:00

DrNoFog: I love your comment about replacement theology and how arrogant it is. When I read that it was like a light going on pointing out that that's exactly the way I've tried to describe it!

EI, some us are aware of the darkness in GB. I mean, at one time you all put more missionaries in the field than anyone else. And it was the Balfour Declaration that put a "people without a land" into a "land without a people".

And now you have more mosques than churches.

It's really sad to see how both our nations have fallen over the past 60 years.

DrNoFog...thanks for pointing that out (it was Dis...

2010-02-08T19:00:32.324-06:00

DrNoFog...thanks for pointing that out (it was Dis, not EI)
Thanks

Hey DrNofog, I’m getting quite an education from r...

2010-02-08T14:37:28.664-06:00

Hey DrNofog, I’m getting quite an education from reading Dr Fruchtenbaum’s Israelology. Of particular interest is how he takes an argument from a Replacement Theologian and dissects it.

EI, it amazes me how a theologian like George Ladd is constrained to Rev 20 for his support of a millennium because he’s spiritualized Israel into the church. I know the Amillennial guys make great intellectual cases for what they believe. But it kinda reminds me of a crafty lawyer getting a criminal off the hooks. You know the guy’s definitely guilty but the lawyer’s argument is so eloquent.

EI, I meant shooting my mouth off in general. The ...

2010-02-08T14:10:52.853-06:00

EI, I meant shooting my mouth off in general. The stuff you posted needs to sit in my head for a long time before I get a clue.

When I lay this a the feet of Replacement Theology...

2010-02-08T13:47:33.265-06:00

When I lay this a the feet of Replacement Theology it's because they're taught that there is no future Trib, it's past, and "we simply cannot be descending into ruin -- cuz we're making the world a better place...converting the whole world...bringing in the Kingdom so that Christ can come back a receive it from" *us*?!? - mere humans... handing the almighty Creator His OWN Kingdom?!? - What an arrogant "theology"!!!...

E.I. said... "Going by what I read, the US believe...

2010-02-08T13:16:59.568-06:00

E.I. said... "Going by what I read, the US believers have little idea of the darkness in the UK..."

Some of us do, but sadly, the majority of US believers have even little idea of the darkness right here in our own backyard!

We have our own little American Stonehedge here in the "good" ol' USA for the satanists to prance around on full moons and, as evidence of how high this goes, in our nation's capital [But of course! Where else?] we have a statue of a Confederate General... One statue only, and NOT of any of the well-known Confederate Generals, but of an obscure Brigadier General Albert Pike. His claim to fame? A high-ranking, Illuminati satanist that had a vision in 1870, and mapped out our 3 world wars...

I made a very interesting discovery a number of years ago when I ran across a number of Christian "Anti-conspiracy" websites that condemn us as Christians "who have fallen under the influence of Satan" and are spreading slanderous lies of the Devil that defame people... and, of course, calling on us to "repent" of this great evil!

In researching this a little further I found, and I still marvel to this day, that it's because of bad theology! -- Replacement Theology prevents the majority of Christians from accepting plain and easily *verifiable* facts of history! - Facts of history that clearly show we're headed into the NWO exactly as predicted by both worldly scholars over several generations and the Bible!

Could this be one of those Verifiable facts of history...? David Rockefeller, -Memoirs, p.405: "We are on the verge of global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nation will accept the New World Order", "Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it" [emphasis mine]
:-0

Thank you for being candid Nathan; I know you are ...

2010-02-08T11:25:04.401-06:00

Thank you for being candid Nathan; I know you are right and I hope I have deployed most of my pentupness. I will make an effort to go against my nature and do as dear RG says and 'shutupamyface' quicker! :D

My dad was a Geordie from Newcastle Upon Tyne, big ship building, big docks, big football and the like. He lived at Walls End, the wall being Hadrians wall, lots of great Roman history.

On his 80th birthday we took him back to see his birthplace. His old home was still there and he told me how he stood at the garden gate, looked around and felt such pride at being British. Then added 'now look at us'!. We have gone the same way as the Romans.

All that to say 'I do know how you all feel' - but our outlook is preparing us for an uptake!
Maranatha
E.I. x

Aaron, I don't think Americans would ever let them...

2010-02-08T10:19:40.725-06:00

Aaron, I don't think Americans would ever let themselves be forcibly chipped, that is until after the Rapture and the world goes crazy. We've got to remember that the Mark John describes in Revelation says nothing about a chip, and so much of the fear today over getting chipped is unfounded.

E.I., you're a joy to read. Just remember that long posts are a deterrant, and some may skip all that wonderful info. We Gen Xers have such short attention spans!

Americans are so concerned about the U.S. being in Bible prophecy because we are currently the world's superpower, and the Bible is basically telling us we won't be really soon. It's heartbreaking, but I think the U.S. and G.B. will have another shot at being Christian nations once again in the Millennium.

Billy, That was Diss that said that 2 you...

2010-02-08T09:59:40.684-06:00

Billy,
That was Diss that said that 2 you...

E.I. You said "Don't buy into the pre-trib raptur...

2010-02-08T07:39:58.020-06:00

E.I.

You said "Don't buy into the pre-trib rapture hoax brother."

Just so you know, I'm a TOTAL pre-tribber all the way!

RG Please don't worry about offending me, I posted...

2010-02-08T03:52:03.787-06:00

RG
Please don't worry about offending me, I posted this for others to judge, if I am wrong anywhere I want to know where and why. The Holy Spirit is my teacher, He is wonderful but this old human can too easily get side tracked by the flesh and human zeal.

Poor old Bob M, my heart goes out to him, I know He really loves Jesus and will be very upset with himself when he realises his mistake of listening to a deceiver. Yet it is also frustrating not being able to get through a barrier of dogged stuborness. Sadly his friends, who know little of this subject, are buoying him up in this deception.

Pretrib is a tiny minority in the UK, few teachers here are able to debate it with Posties - or they are so into 'love' they are afraid of speaking out the truth boldly, or if they try it loses any impact choked out by PC.

Going by what I read, the US believers have little idea of the darkness in the UK, sadly that is changing now. I understand two street preachers were recently shot dead -terrible, I am so sorry.

E.I. hugs

EI, you gave me lots of interesting stuff to ponde...

2010-02-07T22:20:37.438-06:00

EI, you gave me lots of interesting stuff to ponder. I resisted making further comments and beating a dead horse but it wouldn’t take too much for me to go shooting my big mouth off.

BTW, some time ago I did stumble onto Bob Mitchell’s site where he announced that, regrettably, he no longer considered pre-trib viable. I remember a bunch of folk from another system got real excited and quickly flocked over there to try to recruit him.

Shutting my mouth now.